Artemis Rocket Launcher

[N-Sunderland]

This thing is stupidly deadly at long range, and ridiculously easy to hit with even at 1500+ metres. I had more trouble keeping a Galleon going against double Artemises than I did in Cogs against the Gentlemen.

[Phoebe]

While there are a couple of neutral messages and some in denial that the weapon is too powerful at this moment;- the vast majority of this thread seems to agree that the weapon has been overtuned.

There's been discussions about weapons but in none of them was there an almost unanimous vote between veterans players agreeing with a certain balance and we have 4 pages of higher profile players voicing their thoughts on this issue - it's obviously a very current and active subject; and not just something off the side that can be dealt with at a much later stage.

So as close as Muse is with the community and as forward as they've been in almost everything they do it both dissapoints me and suprises me that they have yet to really respond to or participate in this particular debate.

I took a squid - not even a junker - with an artemis on the front in some games;- and I've had some people literally pissed off about the weapon feeling they couldn't do anything against it and when you reach a certain point where a weapon starts really frustrating people it's just time to re-evaluate balance changes.

I don't get a kick out of people blaming a gun for my victories;- I want to be recognized for other things than a mistake in balancing.

Either way just wanted to participate and add my name to the list and put a quick question mark in here why there hasn't been a response yet from Eric.

[N-Sunderland]

There's been discussions about weapons but in none of them was there an almost unanimous vote between veterans players agreeing with a certain balance

Long before you came around to GoIO there was the howitzer mess. I met maybe one or two people in the entire playerbase who didn't think it was OP. That was a dark period in Guns of Icarus history... And now only players like me, Zill, Roy, and other beta guys remember it.


Anyways, I'd like to see Eric's perspective on the matter for sure. The gun's so, so overpowered. I just want them to wait until I'm done the gun destroys achievement before they nerf it

[Queso]

Howitzers OP? That's as far back as you go?  I'm going all the way back to missile slings OP when they were heat seeking. Those things were unbeatable way way back in beta. It seems we've come full circle.

[Helmic]

While there are a couple of neutral messages and some in denial that the weapon is too powerful at this moment;- the vast majority of this thread seems to agree that the weapon has been overtuned.

There's been discussions about weapons but in none of them was there an almost unanimous vote between veterans players agreeing with a certain balance and we have 4 pages of higher profile players voicing their thoughts on this issue - it's obviously a very current and active subject; and not just something off the side that can be dealt with at a much later stage.

So as close as Muse is with the community and as forward as they've been in almost everything they do it both dissapoints me and suprises me that they have yet to really respond to or participate in this particular debate.

I took a squid - not even a junker - with an artemis on the front in some games;- and I've had some people literally pissed off about the weapon feeling they couldn't do anything against it and when you reach a certain point where a weapon starts really frustrating people it's just time to re-evaluate balance changes.

I don't get a kick out of people blaming a gun for my victories;- I want to be recognized for other things than a mistake in balancing.

Either way just wanted to participate and add my name to the list and put a quick question mark in here why there hasn't been a response yet from Eric.

You have to remember that the Artemis hasn't been wreaking havoc for very long, and its possible there may be a counter that hasn't been discovered just yet.  No reason to get worked up about Muse not commenting just yet.

I think the biggest problem with the Artemis is that there isn't a real vision of what it should be doing.  As it works right now it's an all-around weapon that does everything very well except for outright killing (it doesn't need to be if the enemy's disabled) and armor piercing (thanks to the high arcs of both weapons its a snap to have it firing with one or two gatlings).  There needs to be a better idea of what the gun should do before there's any more fiddling with it.

[N-Sunderland]

Howitzers OP? That's as far back as you go?  I'm going all the way back to missile slings OP when they were heat seeking. Those things were unbeatable way way back in beta. It seems we've come full circle.

Nice try, but I was there for that. Howitzers just stick out in my mind way more.

[N-Sunderland]

You have to remember that the Artemis hasn't been wreaking havoc for very long, and its possible there may be a counter that hasn't been discovered just yet.  No reason to get worked up about Muse not commenting just yet.

But there aren't any guns that can beat the Artemis. It destroys enemy guns before they have a chance to even come into range, and with its huge AoE with burst you can keep them down all day. The only reliable counter to the Artemis I've found after a good deal of playing is another Artemis.

[Helmic]

You have to remember that the Artemis hasn't been wreaking havoc for very long, and its possible there may be a counter that hasn't been discovered just yet.  No reason to get worked up about Muse not commenting just yet.

But there aren't any guns that can beat the Artemis. It destroys enemy guns before they have a chance to even come into range, and with its huge AoE with burst you can keep them down all day. The only reliable counter to the Artemis I've found after a good deal of playing is another Artemis.

I don't entirely disagree, but it's better to test it out for a day or two to see if anything does emerge.  You have to give it a little time to see if the meta can react.  It's not like Muse is intentionally letting everyone suffer because they hate us.

[N-Sunderland]

You have to remember that the Artemis hasn't been wreaking havoc for very long, and its possible there may be a counter that hasn't been discovered just yet.  No reason to get worked up about Muse not commenting just yet.

But there aren't any guns that can beat the Artemis. It destroys enemy guns before they have a chance to even come into range, and with its huge AoE with burst you can keep them down all day. The only reliable counter to the Artemis I've found after a good deal of playing is another Artemis.

I don't entirely disagree, but it's better to test it out for a day or two to see if anything does emerge.  You have to give it a little time to see if the meta can react.  It's not like Muse is intentionally letting everyone suffer because they hate us.

We have given it time. It's been a week and there's nothing that can be done. The gun's just way too versatile to get countered. You can't come in with straight-out killing guns 'cause the Artemis will wipe them out. You can't attack with a disabling weapon as the Artemis is better at disabling than whatever you have. You can't get their balloon down since the Artemis will get your gun before it's in range. And if you have a lumberjack, the Artemis won't have trouble taking that out either.

[Machiavelliest]

I think the balance of explosive damage vs the Hwacha Puts the Artemis in its appropriate place with regards to outright kills, since it fires single projectiles.

To give an actual example of my own view of the Artemis and its slight OP, I get hit in the bow and my engines get destroyed.  I think the AoE radius should be decreased to prevent it from functioning as powerfully as a Hwacha in terms of a disabling weapon. That would make the fly-by disabling more difficult, but still give a ship that's been stably positioned the chance to utilize its full potential. Alternately, it would require loading of burst to reclaim the power of the current AoE.

That's all pretty preemptive though. Once we start seeing all-Artemis ships being the meta (which I think we will come close to), it's a fair call to ask for change.  If Muse is too proactive, the game gets into a balancing PIO where unnecessary changes are made.  I think the playerbase, to include the more casual players, has to adapt first before an acute and accurate assessment can be made.
EDIT: Meaning I think just a week might be too fast.  But then again, I've also abandoned most guns for the Artemis, so perhaps it's not.

[Lord Dick Tim]

When ever I evaluate balance in anything I play I always examine how efficient an item is over a broad spectrum of use, the artemis is now very much at the top of this list.
But say we couldn't fix the Artemis, for what ever reason, what would some alternatives be?
I'm thinking maybe weapons that destroy components should do almost nothing to the hull.  Possibly introduce another damage type and resistance.

[NikolaiLev]

I only see one major issue with the Artemis: its ridiculous turning arc.  I just don't see the reasoning behind a long range, accurate weapon similar in role to the Field Gun has an arc that rivals the Rocket Carousel.  There's no reason for that to be the case, and making it comparable to (though not as bad as) the Mercury should put it in line with other weapons.

Its AoE radius is purportedly 5.  Given it deals a whopping 120 Shatter, this would be another good place to tone the weapon back on.  With these two changes, the Artemis will become far harder to use and solidify it as a long range support weapon without compromising its efficacy.

I haven't personally faced difficulty where I've seen it, but I'm inclined to believe that's just my luck of facing poor gunners.  It isn't hard to see how it could potentially be problematic, even on paper.

[awkm]

[Sammy B. T.]

The artemis always had great turning arc and was a fantastic disabler in the hands of a skilled marksman (aiming) and pilot (lining up). I would wager that if they went back to the pre patch stats, there would still be people using it for asymmetrical junkers and whatnot. Pandora's box has been opened.

[awkm]

The artemis always had great turning arc and was a fantastic disabler in the hands of a skilled marksman (aiming) and pilot (lining up). I would wager that if they went back to the pre patch stats, there would still be people using it for asymmetrical junkers and whatnot. Pandora's box has been opened.

Hallelujah!  Truth.

Arc was increased a tiny bit along with other things to bring it into the foreground.  And now since it's a favorite and highly contested, everyone is going to hate me when I inevitably dial it back.

Reckoning approaches.