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Artemis Rocket Launcher

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Machiavelliest:

--- Quote from: Keon on May 09, 2013, 10:34:22 am ---Then it's a howitzer with less scope and no drop.

--- End quote ---
Less range, no drop, different damage types and amounts and azimuth travel.  So not really a howitzer.  It can't shred hull.

The Churrosaur:

--- Quote from: dragonmere on May 09, 2013, 07:25:53 pm ---There are ways to get out of a repair cycle versus lumberjack and carronade, and there are ways to get out of an artemis disable cycle. It's just not easy.

--- End quote ---

Agreed, mostly. The difference is however that while a lumberjack disable cycle is relatively easy to break, the disable from, say, a trifecting junker provides a long, vicious, hwatcha-like cycle with the added bonus of range and ease of use. It's just not fun: I played a fjords match between pairs of meta-junkers, it dragged on for forty painstaking minutes of destruction, turtling, rebuilding, repeat by both sides. I even got zuka to rage. I don't want to see the Artemis nerfed back into obscurity, the meta could use some tilling, but the aaaarrrrrrghhhh factor is simply to high: either lower the turning speed/clip size and make it a disabling merc, or lower the crazy AOE and projectile speed to add some skill in destroying components.

my two cents, pardon the text wall.

Moriarty:

--- Quote from: dragonmere on May 09, 2013, 07:25:53 pm --- It's very annoying, and a captain or crew that doesn't know how to handle the situation will die every single time. There are ways to get out of a repair cycle versus lumberjack and carronade, and there are ways to get out of an artemis disable cycle. It's just not easy.

--- End quote ---

Fun story we (in a galleon) had two engines trying to fix a carronade long enough to have it shoot once at a parallel junker, we couldn't keep it up long enough to fire, the experience was eye opening and may and may or may not have contributed to my previous raging on this thread.

With a competent crew the 1v1 scenario might be 'solved' at the moment with art spam.

RearAdmiralZill:

--- Quote from: dragonmere on May 09, 2013, 07:25:53 pm ---With a bit of skill, the artemis can quickly disable an enemy ship and pretty much keep it disabled as long as it wants to. While I understand this is quite annoying and hard to come back from, I'm not totally sure how this is different than the lumberjack. Or the carronade, for that matter. With a little bit of skill, a lumberjack ship can disable your balloon and most of your components, and pretty much keep it that way until you die. To a lesser degree, the same with the carronades. It's very annoying, and a captain or crew that doesn't know how to handle the situation will die every single time. There are ways to get out of a repair cycle versus lumberjack and carronade, and there are ways to get out of an artemis disable cycle. It's just not easy.

--- End quote ---

First, the guns you are trying to compare the artemis to, are heavy guns. They are meant to pack more "umph" than the light counterparts. The fact you have to compare them to make it seem ok is already a red flag.

Second, a lumberjack projectile has arc, and a very small turning radius, so its harder to shoot and hold someone down. And a heavy carronade has less than half the range of the artemis, so you already risk getting in close. Then you have to maintain that range, and out-maneuver your enemy.

With a competent gunner, artemis is simply too good. None of us want to see it get nerfed into oblivion. We just want it balanced.

Captain Smollett:
I was one of many people who originally asked for the Artemis buff.  I had very much wanted to see such an attractive, well designed and fun to shoot gun enter the meta. I even had envisioned it being able to engine lock a ship.

Unfortunately however it does just seem to be a bit too good. I can't remember the last match I played where a team without an Artemis beat a team who had one.

I don't think it's the high speed, large aoe, decent explosive damage, incredible turning radius individually that make the gun so good but the combination of all three.

The high speed and aoe make it so that not only is it incredibly easy to hit the enemy at range but once you do, you're more likely than not to break a component, and even if you miss, you have another 3 or or 4 shots to make up for it. Once in close range, even if the enemy were to get a gun or engine up, the reload cycle and firing speed make certain that it will be quickly taken back down again and that turn arc makes sure it almost always has a shot.  Add in its explosive damage and some piercing damage from another gun and you can easily kill a ship that can't fight back.

Lastly there is the matter of ease of use.  I was able to achieve all of these incredible results with a gunner who had played the game for less than 3 hours total before joining my ship.

I don't envy awkm's position here since this is clearly not an easy gun to balance, but if I were to try and fiddle with it I'd probably return its original gun arc, reduce the rocket speed in between 1.15 and 1.2 levels and either decrease aoe by 1 or decrease shatter damage. 

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