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Gunner Stamina (Gunner more valid now?)

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Daft Loon:
The change to ammo reloading was also a buff to buff engi, they no longer need good timing in buffing the guns, rather than having a chance to lose your ammo type and possibly 20% damage or the heavy clip effect you have a chance to fire the gun half a second late and get more buffing progress in return.

Dementio:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on May 03, 2015, 09:02:16 pm ---The only "viable" loadout is spanner mallet buff charged. Gunners simply aren't viable compared to the repair, rebuild, and buff bonus.

--- End quote ---

They rebuild and repair one or two guns. You might as well bring pipe/buff/chem for that, so they can at least fix their own gun when against fire stuff. Compared to the buff bonus, gunners might not be as viable, math-wise, but the ability to change to a more suitable ammo type always worked out in my favour.

Byron Cavendish:
I have always advocated using a gunner, a buffgineer and a main. Nothing has changed. It's the classic GOIO trifecta.

BlackenedPies:
Viable might not be the right word, but gunners are almost always less efficient and effective- my definition of viable. In a merc mobula duel having a spanner mallet is a big advantage because the merc is the primary disable target and a wrench on main engine is way too slow. I bring extinguisher as mobula pilot, using heatsink wastes dps.

The difference is more important on ships like meta junker or pyra. Spanner mallet buff is especially vital on heavy guns which are vulnerable to disable. I think all ships almost always need a spanner mallet buff. Gunners simply can't compete with the extra repair and dps. Most guns only need one ammo to maximize effective dps and for simple guns like gat and carro there's no argument for gunner.

I'm ok with gunners being usually useless but pretending they're not doesn't help balance. There is no question that for the majority of guns having a gunner is detrimental compared to a buff engi. The singular role of gunners is for utility which is usually unnecessary and a handicap. Besides arc buffs stamina accomplished nothing towards making gunners viable.

Richard LeMoon:
Now that we are on page two, gather your thoughts and email MUSE at feedback@musegames.com. Get other people to do so as well.

My thoughts on stamina are as such...

Only the engineer has stamina. The other classes have skills or special abilities. They should all be renamed to reflect that.

The Gunner Skill is to change the mechanics of the gun via some unknown method. Perhaps due to more familiarity with the guns... I personally don't like some of the choices of mechanics.

Reload speed increase is OK, but not all that game changing. Since the guns are mechanically loaded, I am not sure how they are making them load faster. I would rather it be replaced with stop clip load, where Skill can be used to stop the reload and fire the number of rounds that have loaded so far. I would rather have the buff hammer do this.

Turning faster is OK. Familiarity with gun weight and muscle memory allows for faster turning. Makes sense on light guns. Not so much on heavy. But I would leave it as is. Or, also add it to the buff hammer (and get rid of the damage increase).

Pushing out of arc is not OK. It helps a little, but makes no sense even with knowledge of the gun. What are they changing to change the mechanical hardware that no one else can do? Especially engineers, since they have to fix the things and would know the mounts inside and out. If anything, this is another thing to add to the buff hammer (which it was for a short time in devapp?)

Mechanics that would make sense with ACTUAL stamina and not just a skill:

'Concentration'- Removes 30% recoil (makes up for the Heavy clip loss). The intimate knowledge of the gun allows the gunner to predict the gun recoil and compensate between shots. This would be a benefit on all ammos on most guns.

'Determination' - Gun is damaged? Use gun knowledge to hold it together to finish firing. Ignores part or all of the damage while stamina is being used, allowing the gun to be used at near full capacity. Possibly even getting on a broken gun with severely limited operation.

'Fortitude' - A little pain is worth your life, right? This allows the gunner to mount a flame-locked gun and continue firing until stamina runs out.

'Sprint' - all crew should have it, not just engineers. Perhaps make gunner and pilot sprint less. Let's face it, though, stamina is a resource you don't want to waste by running.


A gunner will never be as wanted as an engineer until they are less reliant on them. The current changes (sticky loading) actually make engies less reliant on gunners, but gunners are just as reliant (perhaps more) on engies as before.

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