Sunday Community Skirmish #54 (Signups for Sunday June 7th)

[Elazul]

The only map I want removed from SCS is Duel at Dawn, at least until they move the spawn points to better positions.

Not everyone finds sniper matches boring.

[Dementio]

I would like to note how Glowwater Thralls close ranged a lot of teams on Dunes and won even when said teams were literally sitting in a corner of the map or how SPQR used Mobula and a purely close range Squid to win against our double long range Mobula or how we tend to rush straight forward in Dunes and end the fight with a brawl.

It encourages sniping, because of its openness, however Paritan encourages close range and sneaky tactics, yet it is not rare for teams to go long range and do well.

[BlackenedPies]

Ok, so there are people opposed to removing dunes.

There are plenty of options for long range on maps, dunes is just the least balanced one. It's most players' least favorite map and I only pick it in pub matches when I want easy.

[Urz]

Urz solo-cast side stream VODs:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXy5l_wXGi3j4Nk8bE2F8Erb6A8w6ch1M

Personally I would like to see Dunes removed.

Dunes was not in the original Sunday Rumble map pool due to how much it favors long-range play. This was almost two years ago and that has not changed. I eventually re-added it mostly because of the low number of available 2v2 DM maps at the time (only five). Now that we have two new 2v2 DM maps which both also favor long-range play (Hazard and Firnfeld), I don't see why Dunes is necessary.

Minus Dunes, the remaining map pool still allows plenty of opportunity for sniping.

[Sammy B. T.]

Yeah its not like removing Dunes gets rid of sniping by any stretch of the imagination as you still have Firnfeld, Water Hazard and Northern Fjords.

Dunes is a terrible combination of no real cover and even less of a flight ceiling. At least charging across on open ground on other maps gives you space for vertical dodging.

[BlackenedPies]

No one accused sniping of being boring or defended Dunes for being balanced. Dunes is my most played map and in my experience offers the least interesting play. The strategy of sniping is not limited to dunes.

[Extirminator]

Dunes is my most played map and in my experience offers the least interesting play.

Just because a map might be not interesting to play for some people doesn't mean it has to be out of the event. If it is not interesting for you - make it interesting, use more tactics and varied builds to make it nice.
Its just silly to me that we are even discussing this topic for so long and people are actually considering it, without trying to make it interesting themselves from the first place.

[BlackenedPies]

The point is that Dunes offers the least varied tactics. I've done plenty to make it interesting during 1500+ matches, and my second favorite pyra is specifically for dunes (carro merc). It's the best map if you don't want a challenge, and I argue that's the only reason it's voted for.

If people don't want it removed then ok. My only point is that it's the least favored map, has the fewest tactical and strategic options, and no one claims it's balanced. I don't think it's aesthetically appealing but that's just an opinion.

[Skrimskraw]

Dunes is the best brawling map.
The high ceiling and dune banks provide enough space to use various engagement tactics.

you can easily hide by flying close to the ground, there are plenty of moving clouds to use for cover aswell as structures that provide the smallest amount of cover needed to stay alive.

It is only because teams insist on flying around in circles, staying in corners like skill-less rookies that dunes is considered bad.

Firnfeld is ten times worse than dunes in sniping, the cover in firnfeld are based on survival, not on engaging. This means that a team that attacks have to use high ceiling cover where they will be in gun arcs imidiately. In dunes however you can engage from low points and force your enemy to go lower if they want to hit you.

It´s funny how in Thralls we were always thrilled to see dunes in our map picks. Just like some teams are thrilled to see duel at dawn in their picks, or even paritan. you know those guys who like to ram and use goldfishes a lot

the only map I would say should be removed for the time being is paritan due to its consistent slowmo bug that keeps hitting in every time that map is played.
neither dunes or duel provides any gamebreaking bugs that makes it impossible to play proper.

[BlackenedPies]

If there were clouds, dunes, and small pieces of cover it would offer varied tactics, but these are too few and far between (I wish there were more). I've played tons of dunes with sniping/brawling against good players and rarely have I been impressed. Results are predictable but I'd lie if I said I don't enjoy dunes and Sammy will attest. I've always said it's the easiest map whether for brawling or sniping, although sniping is blatantly effective. You only vote dunes if you don't want challenge.

[Extirminator]

You only vote dunes if you don't want challenge.

Voting for Dunes IS the challenge

[nanoduckling]

I hate Dunes, but I've had good matches with brawling ships against decent opponents on it. Skirmskraw was kind enough to give me a tutorial on brawling approaches on Dunes and we know the Romans can do it against top tier enemies. You can brawl on Dunes. It isn't easy, but it is possible. It is true that the map encourages sniping. I don't like matches where they drag on and the timer becomes a factor, but I don't think Dunes needs to be removed from the roster.

Duel is a fine map and fun, I very much enjoy it. With spawns the way they are it is currently broken. It should always be possible for a pilot to spawn their ship somewhere where they have more than 3 seconds to get the helm before they get riddled with hades fire. Until the spawns are fixed I think it should be removed from the roster. Once the spawns are fixed I think it should be added right back in again.

Are we using a random map selector now that doesn't use a map twice unless all maps have been drawn once? Because problems with the roster are greatly reduced if maps aren't cropping up repeatedly in the same tournament.