Explaining GOIO to a new player

[MagKel]

I wrote a thing that I like on the Steam forum today and I am going to share it with you. Regarding the tone and content of some of the other posts I am not even going to comment because seriously, lashing at a new player because he/she had "the audacity" of speaking his/her mind on the most problematic feature of GOIO never justifies aggressive behavior. And it doesn't matter you have a million matches in the game, I don't care and I will never condone gratuitous insults anywhere. When I am with my squad on a fire or car crash there is always a passerby or relative coming to me "Chief, why don't you do this or that? Why don't you use this? You are doing it wrong!", imagine if i answered like this.

Speaking of GOIO

Aasha, I salute your dedication. Sometimes the vets can be hard and unforgiving in their comments but (with some physiological exceptions) the community is one of the nicest you will ever find. Feel free to add me so we can play together and we'll discuss it over voice chat. Also MUSE forums are a great source of information both about the game mechanics, the current trends and the future of the game.

None the less, let me explain you something I discovered regarding GOIO during my play time: it is more of a e-sport than a video-game and the vets, the competitive teams and whoever has more than 800 games will play the game with a mindset that is the furthest from the "casual fun" concept of many indie games out there. The fun of GOIO is in the minutiae of assets that you bring to the battlefield: the sum of individual skills and teamwork a ship can muster given a proper load-out and strategy. it is a multi-layered game where every element plays a pivotal role. take the wrong ammo, the wrong tool or miss a step of the chem cycle and you will lose. play your cards with patience and you will win.

This is why most people here will tell you (with varying degrees of etiquette, and I apologize on their behalf) "Quick match is horrible". Since I am not from the US, I'll use soccer as the most poignant example of what a real GOIO match is. Everyone on the ship has a role, everyone has something to do that is instrumental, fundamental to the survival and victory. What it would be of a soccer team made up only of attackers, with no Goalkeeper? What it would be a team with a goalkeeper without proper shoes and gloves? What it would be of a team arranged only on one side of the field, allowing the enemy team to roam unchallenged to the goal every single time?
Now imagine a ship without a main engineer with Chem Spray? One flamer burst and the ship would be rapidly pummeling to the ground. A crew without spyglasses, unable to mark the targets for their captain? a gunner without the right tools such as heavy clip on heavy carronade and hwacha?

it would make a short, bitter game where hardly anyone learns, where the taste of victory is stale given the randomness with which it was gained. The players would not learn, would not understand the science behind a seemingly complex array of weapons. Would you learn how to crew a standard long/short range Galleon or Junker without a clear and firm hand guiding your moves? Would it be possible for a crew to decide duties without the quietness of the Lobby, making everyone aware of how fundamental each role is?

No, it wouldn't and instead more and more players would gain a warped perception of what GOIO is, the potential for everyone to feel pride in a 5-4 victory like no other game out there can give. GOIO is a game where people take that extra mile of sacrifice and instead of firing a gun (which is fun) run the length to the ship to let another player fire her/his gun so that the crew, as a whole cohesive unit, can win the match.

Would this be possible to happen in a random, fast and chaotic game where anyone can jump in regardless of conditions and needs? Even faster and more repetitive games such as CS require a modicum of planning and thankless sacrifice. GOIO places this element at the center of it, making someone more proud of saving its own ship rather than killing an enemy.

I see you around and may your skies be clear of flak and the balloon not on fire.

[Crafeksterty]

Wow that quote is brilliant!

I read the topic and, ive come across almost the same situation on the steam forum of Lethal League where i want to discuss characters super ability, but i get dismissed with sentences that have no explenations like "Git gud" or "No". So please lets consider giving people information as to why their idea/suggestion/complaint or whatever wouldnt justify with how the game makes up for it. (An explenation)

[Hoja Lateralus]

Well, firstly, if someone plays the game longer his opinion is based on more evidence, therefore we may argue that his opinion is of more worth. I'm not saying that opinion of new players are worthless, it's just you see the game different after playing 1, 10 and 100 hours. Of course you should always at least try to stay cultured and remember to argue ideas, not persons.

None the less, let me explain you something I discovered regarding GOIO during my play time: it is more of a e-sport than a video-game and the vets, the competitive teams and whoever has more than 800 games will play the game with a mindset that is the furthest from the "casual fun" concept of many indie games out there. The fun of GOIO is in the minutiae of assets that you bring to the battlefield: the sum of individual skills and teamwork a ship can muster given a proper load-out and strategy.

This is... weird. I mean, that's both true and untrue, but in different manners, I'd say. On one hand GOIO community IS really playfull, and all the munkers, harpoons, flares etc. are great examples of it. Heck, sometimes I have more fun losing than winning, because we're playing a silly build. I also remember times when there was more of it, for instance 4v4 pilot-only squid match. Saying that every person who played 800 and above matches can never enjoy the game in "casual fun mode" is simply untrue. If it was true we would see 90% of the times only metamidions and blenderfishes on the battlefield. Which we don't.
On the other hand, I'm repeating this allthe time, in this extremely highly cooperational game even one unsubordinate person can ruin your game, therefore your ally's and therefore whole lobby's (because game without challenge is never fun). That's why we, the players who know shit, have to make sure everything will go right and because we have no tool for handling new players, we have to handle the uncooperative players. I'm not saying that there's always ONE way to do things, I'm just saying get off that flare gun at the back of a galleon, PLEASE. We may seem harsh but we're people who like to have fun like everybody, we just don't like unexperienced, uncooperative people who ruin our games. And those we hunt.
Also, what the hell? Did that person never play and/or see other cooperational games like LoL, Dota or Counter Strike. People are always mean to unexperienced guys who do dumb shit. I'm currently in that position in CS:GO. A guy told me I suck, he got a 5-year veteran medal, I've got like 20 hours played. Jokes are on him because he's still a silver The point is - cooperational games are like that. Love it or leave it.

Other than that, the quote describes GOIO pretty acurrately, I mysef used football metaphor when people didn't understand my argument.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Ya know what would solve that post there. Muse putting in a quick match feature that forces you to join as engineer. There, now you can join matches in session and not be a useless sack of poo. That or it is what many people wanted with quick match...it does a smart feature where it fits you to fill the role that is missing. Heck this is what matchmaking should have been. A support tool for the lobby list which refined quick match and made it not suck.

I'd more than welcome a quick join feature like this back where I don't have to worry about getting extra powder monkeys or pilots mid game.

[MagKel]

Well, firstly, if someone plays the game longer his opinion is based on more evidence, therefore we may argue that his opinion is of more worth. I'm not saying that opinion of new players are worthless, it's just you see the game different after playing 1, 10 and 100 hours. Of course you should always at least try to stay cultured and remember to argue ideas, not persons.

I will always consider the opinion of an vet more informative than the opinion of a scrub, and yes, let's break the wall of politically correctness: most ideas from a newly arrived player are, physiologically, silly at best. yet maybe that same person played a gazillion of hours in another 100 games and can really add something to the table by doing a comparative analysis of the game state of art. I have the strong feeling the person involved in this conversation is a dev of some sorts, you can read it between the lines IMHO when he talks about community behavior (always conservative) and player base tendencies. truth is, because of the internet's nature it could be the shadow account for a developer of DOTA and we would never know.

This is... weird. I mean, that's both true and untrue, but in different manners, I'd say. On one hand GOIO community IS really playfull, and all the munkers, harpoons, flares etc. are great examples of it. Heck, sometimes I have more fun losing than winning, because we're playing a silly build. I also remember times when there was more of it, for instance 4v4 pilot-only squid match. Saying that every person who played 800 and above matches can never enjoy the game in "casual fun mode" is simply untrue.

Voluntary costly handicap is a common behavior among experts of a certain field. To keep up with the sport's similitude, when players are confident enough and satisfied with their overall results, they will bring the game setting and rules to an extreme, either unbalancing or totally breaking conventions in order to achieve even a higher level of "fun" or experiment Honest Signaling, which in behavioral science is called Zahavian Handicap, (on a broader sense they will enjoy the capability of the group to voluntarily reduce their chances of victory to a minimum in order to have an extreme experience)

On the other hand, I'm repeating this all the time, in this extremely highly cooperational game even one unsubordinate person can ruin your game, therefore your ally's and therefore whole lobby's (because game without challenge is never fun). That's why we, the players who know shit, have to make sure everything will go right and because we have no tool for handling new players, we have to handle the uncooperative players. I'm not saying that there's always ONE way to do things, I'm just saying get off that flare gun at the back of a galleon, PLEASE. We may seem harsh but we're people who like to have fun like everybody, we just don't like unexperienced, uncooperative people who ruin our games. And those we hunt.

I really wish I could just leave some weapon slots empty sometimes..

Also, what the hell? Did that person never play and/or see other cooperational games like LoL, Dota or Counter Strike. People are always mean to unexperienced guys who do dumb shit. I'm currently in that position in CS:GO. A guy told me I suck, he got a 5-year veteran medal, I've got like 20 hours played. Jokes are on him because he's still a silver The point is - cooperational games are like that. Love it or leave it.

I disagree. because other communities are hives of thousands of terrible, frustrated people this can't use it as a justification for rudeness and aggressive behavior. GOIO doesn't have the numbers to hide behind the idea of "love it or Leave it" because for every new, scrubby player that joins and enjoys the game there could be a goldmine of like minded friends who are ready to follow suit and join. I brought already 3 players and plan to get more. The game you love needs money to keep the servers running and since there is no subscription fee everybody's duty is to have as many people to buy it, play it and madly enjoy it outside of steam sales. it is clear we are bleeding veterans too, i ask a lot of questions about the past of GOIO, I get lots of answers and everybody can see that half of the historical clans have a hard time pulling a 8 crew for SCS. Love it or watch it die.

[Hoja Lateralus]

Also, what the hell? Did that person never play and/or see other cooperational games like LoL, Dota or Counter Strike. People are always mean to unexperienced guys who do dumb shit. I'm currently in that position in CS:GO. A guy told me I suck, he got a 5-year veteran medal, I've got like 20 hours played. Jokes are on him because he's still a silver The point is - cooperational games are like that. Love it or leave it.

I disagree. because other communities are hives of thousands of terrible, frustrated people this can't use it as a justification for rudeness and aggressive behavior. GOIO doesn't have the numbers to hide behind the idea of "love it or Leave it" because for every new, scrubby player that joins and enjoys the game there could be a goldmine of like minded friends who are ready to follow suit and join. I brought already 3 players and plan to get more. The game you love needs money to keep the servers running and since there is no subscription fee everybody's duty is to have as many people to buy it, play it and madly enjoy it outside of steam sales. it is clear we are bleeding veterans too, i ask a lot of questions about the past of GOIO, I get lots of answers and everybody can see that half of the historical clans have a hard time pulling a 8 crew for SCS. Love it or watch it die.

Well, actually I came here from steam sales (as a poor university student I can't afford $20-$60 games) and I believe good games defend themselves. I mean, I also brought 2 people into this game, and one of those guys brought another 3 people. If 1.3.8 didn't happen I'd probably encourage somebody. It's Devs job to figure out the money issues, I gave them that 4 euros for skirmnish and 10$ for Adventure Mode pre-order, and sadly I can't truthfully recommend GOIO right now. Historical clans are falling apart (as most of the community) and they are merely a shadow of themselves from 6 or more months ago.
It's a matter of your vision, I'd say. Many times I give example of CS:GO (which is partially flawed because practically Counter Strike is being alive and tweaked for over a decade) which is very high-skilled, hard to master, highly cooperative game and from the beginning you see that you either learn it or you can go away. There's no patting on the head, no achievements, very basic tutorial and that's it. And what? It's a VERY successful game, with average of almost 300k players, the 2nd most popular game on Steam, right after Dota 2.
I may be wrong, but for me that's the harsh reality, during sales we have a peak of over 1000 players, and after few months the player count goes back to normal. This is a sign that those people bought the game, played for a while and went "meh".

[Squidslinger Gilder]

CS is not complicated or hard. Just a lot of repetition and twitch shooting. You want complicated and difficult, go back and play classic Ghost Recon or Rainbow 6 where you sat in planning stages of a mission for a long time before ever getting in to blast anything. CS spawned from the same era and it has a good mixture. Really was a great time before studios whored themselves out to the LCD of players and made them too arcadey.

Just look at Recon now. It is like it mated with CoD then continued to mate with itself till it became utterly inbred and barely considered a lifeform. UT did the same with Halo and finally got too inbred to stand up with UT3. Battlefield has done similar with CoD cept it hasn't become inbred enough yet.

Remember also that CS is a valve title and it was brought into Steam early on. So it's playerbase is much larger. It had years on Steam before Steam became a thing. Plus now its a market driven machine with CS:GO with everyone vying for hot pink P90s or M4s with flames. Dota is in a similar situation. I can guarantee you, if Muse allowed in game items to be resold and actual money be made by players, GOIO would be high on the charts.

Without a huge market money driven machine, people just aren't going to invest time into GOIO. Its a team game and unless you know people, its hard to get along with others who have different motivations for playing the game. First thing I learned in schools as a kid when they'd force us into groups; There was always 1 or 2 people who you could count on, and the rest who just sat there sucking up oxygen then taking credit like they were useful to the group.

[Hoja Lateralus]

>CS is not complicated or hard
I lol'd

>People play CS only for skins
I lol'd x2

>GOIO would be succesful if there would be sellable skins
I lol'd x3

Counter Strike is marriage of cooperation, tactics and skill. You can win by out-smarting as well as out-skilling your enemy. People dedicate whole lives to this game and if you watched at least one competetive match you'd know how complicated it can be. To learn every map, at least few smokes/flashes on every map, every gun recoil pattern and the most common tactics and hideouts - it's a TON of work. That's why people can dedicate whole lives to this game and still grow.

Edit: just example from top of my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJJoj5FHFM

[GeoRmr]

Edit: just example from top of my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfJJoj5FHFM

[spoiler]It's exactly the same as any other generic fps[/spoiler]

[HamsterIV]

Very nice explanation MagKel. I feel many new players have a bad experience when they find this reality of this game conflicts with what they expect. Many vets (including my self) do not treat new players well if they approach us with a mindset that this game is something that it is not.

My quick and dirty version of your speech goes:
Victory will depend on everyone doing their job as close to perfection as they can manage. If one of us fails we all fail.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

If you suck at Left 4 Dead or Payday, you'll suck even more in GOIO. Nuff said!

[David Dire]

If you suck at Left 4 Dead or Payday, you'll suck even more in GOIO. Nuff said!

Not so much L4D, but, other than that, the salutes speak for themselves.