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Handicap system..
Kamoba:
--- Quote from: Thomas on March 05, 2015, 01:20:49 pm ---I'd be perfectly fine with a hidden handicap system, and it wouldn't be all that hard to implement since we have a fairly accurate MMR system. Sure you don't always get put into a match with people equally rated, but the system makes a pretty good prediction on who's actually going to win. It'd be feasible to change a damage output modifier on the team with the lower or higher MMR. Things might get a little complicated when teams have a mix of a really high rated ship and really low rated ship, but it should work out fine.
For Kamoba's case, there's no clear answer. It's actually something my clan runs into a lot. Do we go try hard and bring our best to this fight against some level 10's? Or do we go absolutely silly and have all harpoon squids? For us, we don't want to insult our opponents by bringing something stupid and still winning, but we don't want to grind them into paste either. There's a lot of little ways to handicap yourself without declaring it to the world and hurting feelings too severely. I won't bring a lame loadout to a competitive match anymore than I would to a serious pub match, but maybe I'll communicate less or bring a ship that's more difficult for my crew and myself.
--- End quote ---
I think that's what many do, I know a lot of Gents who fly with me on a regular basis, who change their ammo to something less "meta" or "try hard" simply because although the less effective ammo, it is their preference or they prefer [insert reason here] about it.
The all gunners and all pilots is something that's done but I was mainly referring to it as an example. :)
RearAdmiralZill:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on March 04, 2015, 08:39:22 pm ---Wouldn't such a system create an expectation of x team with higher levels to handicap themselves every time a newer opponent was present?
On top of that , how would the newer team feel if they win against handicapped opponents? Good? Insulted?
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Why would it? Do you expect them to handicap themselves now by some means? Idk if new players are even aware they got stomp by terrible loadouts.. Is stomping them with a bad load out less insulting then using some other mechanic to level the field?
The point of making it player driven and not game driven - is people can decide when "they" want to use it. Hiding as suggested entirely maybe the best approach so only you know you had a harder time.. Because handicapping yourself is beneficial to you if you want more challenge when a match clearly isn't gonna give any..
Would you be upset if someone beat you while handicapped?
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My point is that currently (to my knowledge) there is no expectation of any kind of handicapping. I've never come across a match where the enemy team told us to take all pilots cause "we're too pro." If you put the option there for all to see, then not opting to do it makes you just look like an ass, which is just going to cause tensions and solve nothing.
I'm not quite sure how you would hide it if it was an option as opposed to taking a "meh" load-out. A patch would come out saying "hey we added a secret handicap feature. If level discrepancies are too high, an option will come up for the higher leveled team to handicap themselves." Everyone knows it's there, and it sparks the potential for awkward "uh, did you guys hit that button?"
I expect no handicapping of any sort currently. Easy for me as a player to say now, but this hasn't changed since I started in beta. I wouldn't learn anything if we all weren't on a level playing field and my loss wasn't only due to my mistakes. I'd be busy trying to account for a handicap instead of figuring out that rushing in alone was getting me killed all the time. And in all honesty, even taking "meh" load-outs is confusing for new people who are looking at them, and if they lose, suddenly think that's what they should be doing. It's a poor example.
I'm not saying people can't have fun and take silly builds. That's on them, and we all do it cause we can. Personally, I have my load-outs and I play matches. There's zero thought into if I should be making it easier for my enemy because they appear new. I do not believe that such a system would help anyone. I do believe it would only rise tensions between new and old players.
Arturo Sanchez:
--- Quote from: Thomas on March 05, 2015, 10:59:45 am ---This sounds like "I'm so much better than you that I have to gimp my ship for this to even be close, and I'll still win."
Players basically do this already, when competent teams bring silly ships or try to go all gunner/pilot. It may make the match a little closer, but it's also incredibly insulting to the other team.
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/thread.
Hilary Briss:
Yes many of us Veterans already handicap ourselves.
Such as taking 4 pilots etc or daft ship combinations and tool sets to a game and still winning..... What can we do?
Letting the opposition get the upper hand and then we have to claw our way back or throw the game all together.
When myself hears the word stacked lobby bandied at myself, it makes me want to weep. My loss tally is rather high mostly due to being with new players helping and teaching. But we do also like a challenge, which is not always possible in public lobbies due to player base. In addition it is not for the want of trying on many of our parts to get new players to stick around and enjoy the game.
Many of the comments already posted illustrate many of the ways we actively do handicap ourselves. But as previously mentioned it can appear to be insulting to others by taking all gunners, all X and still winning......
Caprontos:
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on March 05, 2015, 11:04:00 am ---Yeah, its close to taunting the opponents.
There are allready ways to handicap oneself like mentioned.
To be honest, once Coop or Adventure mode punches the shelves in the face, then we may have more competent players. Like players that play coop, get accostumed to the game, then bring their known skills to pvp so we wont need to think too much about noobs and whatnot in pvp because they will know how to intereact around ships.
So there wont be a need for any kind of handicap whatsoever.
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I disagree its taunting really.. and doubt new players would developed a negative stigma against it.. because I assume most people like having a chance to win in every match..
I don't think its a useful argument though weather or not the system would be useful vs overly stacked lobbies.. More things like, would it make it more fun for both teams.. or actually create more balance when there isn't any..
I do think bigger population would solve the issue regardless.. cause more people = bigger pool = over time less unfair matches, an so less issue..
I do hope co-op lets more enjoy the games gameplay more, and thus pour over to PVP when they are bored of shooting planes.. but we'll see when it actually happens, how it effects it..
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on March 05, 2015, 03:05:18 pm ---My point is that currently (to my knowledge) there is no expectation of any kind of handicapping. I've never come across a match where the enemy team told us to take all pilots cause "we're too pro." If you put the option there for all to see, then not opting to do it makes you just look like an ass, which is just going to cause tensions and solve nothing.
I'm not quite sure how you would hide it if it was an option as opposed to taking a "meh" load-out. A patch would come out saying "hey we added a secret handicap feature. If level discrepancies are too high, an option will come up for the higher leveled team to handicap themselves." Everyone knows it's there, and it sparks the potential for awkward "uh, did you guys hit that button?"
I expect no handicapping of any sort currently. Easy for me as a player to say now, but this hasn't changed since I started in beta. I wouldn't learn anything if we all weren't on a level playing field and my loss wasn't only due to my mistakes. I'd be busy trying to account for a handicap instead of figuring out that rushing in alone was getting me killed all the time. And in all honesty, even taking "meh" load-outs is confusing for new people who are looking at them, and if they lose, suddenly think that's what they should be doing. It's a poor example.
I'm not saying people can't have fun and take silly builds. That's on them, and we all do it cause we can. Personally, I have my load-outs and I play matches. There's zero thought into if I should be making it easier for my enemy because they appear new. I do not believe that such a system would help anyone. I do believe it would only rise tensions between new and old players.
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Is a fair point. An could be a potential issue depending how its addressed and used by people - or implemented.
I know I have played with newer people who are of a mind there meh loadout is good because they've seen it used well or work well.. when in reality it didn't work because it was a good loadout.. .
I wasn't thinking though it appearing when there is enough MMR discrepancy (because you'd have to base it on that and not levels..) but rather anyone past point X could opt to use it. But this could make it more useful as an opt in thing specifically for people who want to do it but not necessarily just given to everyone.. Since the average person I doubt would use it... and only people who captain a lot really even need it.. Though its less useful then the teacher program no doubt...
That said I don't think they would learn less over all then current stacked matches though from it.. because all they learn now is you can lose really fast. - no matter what you do..
The point of topic was just a random thought though and see opinions and if it was worth sending as a feedback idea directly to muse, I don't really want to argue to hard for it but felt obligated a little cause it was my random thought haha..
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