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new players

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Indreams:
Better tutorial. A tutorial like the one in League of Legends, where the player is pitted against semi-scripted easy-bot match. Something similar would really help new players walk into matches with some idea of the basics.

This will come (or be possible) with the AIs Muse is developing for Co-op. Sadly, tutorial won't change until than.

Current tutorial is pretty awful. It's boring and provides terrible examples of load outs, like duo-fire tool and no-fire tool.

Lanliss:
If it is anything like the Dota tutorial, no. That thing was five hours long. Far too long, and the entire reason I do not play dota. I would hate for the reason that no one plays Guns to be that they did not want to deal with the massive tutorial.

Schwalbe:
It's not that very bad. The problem is within people. They DO NOT read the tutorial info even though it's laconic...

Hoja Lateralus:
To the original poster, I feel that I belong to the group you are mostly reffering to as "hating" new players.

So let me explain my point slowly. Step by step. And yes, I know I sound arrogant as hell. Good? Good.

Imagine you go to a football game. You get random people from your area, scramble your way into the teams and start playing. Quickly enough you find out that your goalkeeper doesn't know shit about the game and runs past the defenders, to attack. Moreover, he kicks another player which results in a faul. While enemy team is discussing how to use the faul you try to explain him that he should be behind defenders, as a goalkeeper. He starts asking why but it's too late - the enemy team kicked the ball, passed it to their attackers and scored. So... you 'may' hate that guy but you probably not. Nor you want him to be of some excellent level at glance. No. You just wish he listened and tried his best on his position, knowing the rules of the game, without making your game miserable. Also imagine that you play football there every day and although there are different guys - there's always one such guy either on your team or enemies, which ruins game for EVEYRONE.

I do not hate them. Just if possible I don't want them on my ship, on my team, in my match if they are incommunicative, incooperative, unwilling to listen and lacking any knowledge about the game. I don't judge them as persons, I just want to have a pleasant match. I'm not against 'all' new players like "this is maah gaaahm and imma play with MAAAH FRUUUUHNDS", I just have bad impressions lately of any players below 100 matches count that have been on my ship. Also I don't mind helping some player once in a while (depending on my mood), but I don't want to be forced to do that every time I want to play.

I've already posted suggested solution to "noob problem" and I won't repeat myself*. I will coment what happened in this thread though. The idea that original poster is suggesting is somewhat idyllic, or at least really hard to make (we'd have to think what does it mean to be non-novice "advanced" player and how to put that in achievements). Also, as someone said, it may turn out to be (if designed/implemented badly) a wall that some people cannot break.

The big problem is that GOIO doesn't have a good player base, especially in "middle class" area. I can only guess but I think that 60-70% of GOIO population is below lvl20. Many veterans and medium-rank players have left the game, and people who would be that medium-rank are getting discouraged and also leaving, and then around 200-300 players on average there's a new sale, and so on. Lifespan of most new players in this game is probably something around 3 months and that's clearly something to think about that many players buy this game, play it for a while and then drop it and forget about it. This is also the reason why pubs are filled with stomping. But that's a little offtopic...

About the tournament for the novices, some time ago I've suggested something as "Junior league" - a Hephaestus Challenge replica but for people under some match count limit (I remember suggesting 1000 but it's a matter of debate). This would encourage young players to fight competetivelly and could make our comptetetive scene flourish.

Tutorials... yeah, those are fairly useless. This have been asked and pleaded for long time but no answer yet. But I'm glad that there are projects to help new players learn, such as Video Tutorial Project or Nanoduckling's clan.

*https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5713.0.html

Lanliss:
 I did not say you hate new players. I just know that some people would prefer not to play with the newer players. I completely understand your point, and I have had the same problem. I look at it a little different, less as a reason to want to be away from the new players, more as a chance to teach. I am not judging you, I know some people can be difficult, and I entirely understand all of the arguments for and against New players. None of that is what I am talking about.

Or rather, while I am referring to all of that in my writing, more discussions on what new players are like is not my goal. I am looking for solutions to the problem, preferably with as little emotion as possible. Just pure, unbiased ideas. And as I said before, not just ways to separate people, because I know that is not the only solution. I am looking for any ideas that people think could help the problem, either on its own, or in tandem with other ideas. In short, I am looking for results, not explanations on why we need them.

Also, do not worry about coming off as arrogant, I have that problem too. I think it might have something to do with using words like Tandem, while everyone else on the internet just goes "lolz, cnt tuch meh swag". I have apologized in messages on this forum, in emails, and in game for coming off as if I think I know everything, or being arrogant or preachy. Also, writing that sample of the internet hurt me inside.

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