Author Topic: Minotaur Heavy Cannon  (Read 51322 times)

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2015, 09:39:50 pm »
This is the part where I ask, again, for tracers on all guns that do not have them, mino and carronade that is.

The Minotaur should have tracers. Because it's a long range weapon it would be nice to know where they are shooting you from.

Offline Tychon

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2015, 09:49:45 pm »
So i was not wrong on the basically instant. ~2.2 seconds to hit max range. Thats not enough time for anyone to dodge.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2015, 10:22:49 pm »
Everyone is talking about the the gun, and I'm sitting here pleased as punch that my name caught on ^^

Offline Indreams

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2015, 11:14:41 pm »
ShadedExalt, nice naming.  ;)

What are some of your builds now that you've had about a day to test the gun?

These are the ones I've seen or tried.

Bullfish
or should it be called minofish?

Basically a flakfish with the minotaur instead. Works just like a flakfish. Practically useless in 2v2 DM or King of the Hill, but amazing on Crazy King (have yet to see it on 3v3/4v4 DM). The Push is really useful for team fights. You can always engage with side flame or carronade (which ever one you prefer) if you have to.


MinoSpire
It needs a better name.

Amazing support ship. Gives Spire a different role than the glass cannon. Stand behind the ally and move the enemy ship any way you want it. Use a mine if you are confident; if they get close, mine behind them -> push them into it. Amazing on Paritan. Spire maneuvers around the skyscrapers pretty well. Push enemy ships into obstructions. Completely mess up enemy piloting.


Duo Mino Galleon
It needs not a better name, but a real name.

Have your ally fly a long range spire/mobula. Put mercury on the top deck. Keep the enemy ships completely away from your fleet. Do some crazy armor breaks. Great on the dunes and other open maps. Although... you'll wish you brought a hwacha instead when you get ambushed.


I think these were the most common today. I flied the Bullfish and MinoSpire myself. On one of the later matches, I flew a Close Range Spire (Hwacha Mortar Gat Gat) with great support from a MinoSpire. we won 5-null against two Galleons. Never have I killed so many Galleons with a Spire.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2015, 11:22:52 pm »
Thanks!

Definitely Bullfish, the Spire can be Spinotaur, (Actually I'm naming mine The Longhorn), and Mino Gally is the Bulleon.  (Or Gold Bullion, as I am naming mine.)

I haven't had a chance to use the Mino yet, but I plan to have a LOT of fun.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2015, 02:01:57 am »
Minotaur + hades and x2 light flaks demolish any other ship that tries to outfight you middle range.

But this makes me think
In the way of nerfing the minotaur, i think its arcs have to be tampered with.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2015, 02:24:20 am »
The Minotaur should have tracers. Because it's a long range weapon it would be nice to know where they are shooting you from.

This was one of the first things I asked for. Course I didn't know it was a big carronade at that time so I wanted some way to figuring out the arcs and range.

Offline Alistair Marlowe

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2015, 02:26:02 am »
Having flown with and against it for most of the day, I figured I'd put in my two cents as a pilot as far as which ships it seems to work well against.

Works well:  Anything with both low mass and large surface areas.  The longer or wider the ship, the easier it is to apply torque with the gun by hitting further out from the center.  Mobula, Junker, Goldfish
Situational:  If you get the jump with a good angle, you'll shut em down.  If you don't, then the minotaur won't save you.  Pyramidion, Galleon
Doesn't work well:  Squid and Spire

I say it's situational against the pyra because if you hit it from the side out along its snout, you'll put it into a spin that it won't have recovered from with its rubbish angular acceleration by the time you've reloaded.  If it's already charging straight in at you, though, you're not slowing it down and it's harder to shake it off course.  If it crosses the arm time barrier, that's the end for the minotaur.  The galleon is so heavy that you need a really good hit right out where the balloon meets the bowsprit to really give it pause.  It's hard to shake a galleon up enough that it can't reorient arcs on you during your reload cycle.

As far as it being poor against the squid and spire, here's why I think that:  Both ships are pretty tightly hunkered up around their centers of mass.  The spire is especially hard to knock off facing because it doesn't really have anywhere to shoot that isn't right along its center of mass.  The squid, while lighter, isn't terribly long and even a broadside shot is easily compensated for by the pilot, especially with buffed turning engines.  If you catch the squid at low throttle, you'll rattle its cage.  If you catch a squid at low throttle, though, that squid is either distracted killing something or is doing it wrong.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2015, 02:32:41 am »
In the way of nerfing the minotaur, i think its arcs have to be tampered with.

I like the horizontal arcs but in the current state the vertical is too much.

I would prefer to make it harder to shoot though. Right now it's very easy to snipe from extreme ranges. Add drop or reduce speed. Drop could make it very difficult so I'd prefer a speed reduction. 800 m/s is pretty fast (1790 mph). Some type of tracers would be nice but it would look kinda silly on a super fast straight particle. Laser gun?

Or remove the use of heavy clip. Heavy is what makes it so good. I like it and I'd prefer to keep it with heavy clip it's just too easy. The other long range heavy weapons require much more skill.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 02:43:25 am by BlackenedPies »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 03:59:51 am »
Last night Captain Claus caused my squid and hardy crew a moment of "Game does not know how to react just yet... SPIN B****ES!"
We held the point on Anglean raiders, stationary when Patched Wizard calls out the fish is at our rear, so I Claw and turn to face fish, then we take a hit and the game freezes for 2 seconds, thinking its me lagging for some weird reason I hold on steering, then the game unfreezes, and we've not only span 360 in those 2 seconds but are still being span around (much to the lols of everyone in the match!)

Neusea kicks in as me and Claus have fun with it and our allies fight for the next point.

Total round time: 12 minutes (Anglean Raiders)

But omg it was funny, I want to see just how fast a squid can be spun by galleon double minotaur and two gunners timing the shots!

Offline Yiski

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2015, 11:00:59 am »
Preface: Like a derp, I posted this in the feedback section.

Zill and I ran a few matches with the gun on his galleon. Had the gun on the 1 slot in the ship loadout.

I had a blast with the gun. The damage might seem low, but upping the damage would defeat the point of bringing it which is of course to throw off an enemy charge or barrage. While I did find the reload and fire rate slow and long, making it any bit faster would make this gun too good for it's main purpose.

However, I do see some concerns, the range can probably be nerfed a bit because it's insane to think it can hit at 1800m reliably with heavy clip. Note the range is a little over a 100m more than either lumberjack or heavy flak. Those guns have decent shell travel times and shell arcs. The minotaur is raycast and all you have to do are load heavy and figure out proper leads. I'd say give the gun range something short of hwachas.

Another concern is the potency of the gun's effect. My last match of the evening, I was able to save us from a charging gat/flak pyra by turning it 180 degrees allowing the engi to keep a fragment of hull armor and a strand of our remaining health. It took two shots to accomplish. Even one shot during my other matches could cause enough trouble.

My final concern is the gun's arc. I believe the arc needs to be nerfed too. They're 45 degrees in all directions. While I can assume those arcs were given because it gives the gunner greater freedom to aim the shots more precise to allow for maximum effect, I found it far too easy to throw off ships.

TL;DR = Love gun, but needs some nerfs.

Offline Kestril

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2015, 11:31:08 am »
I think that gun  offers newbies a low-barrier-to entry sniping gun that can help counter enemy sniping. I'd keep the speed of the projectile and range because newbies need an easy tactic to stand a chance at the long range game. It's a great balancing for skill and gives teh newbs a chance against that lumberjack barrage.

I didn't have much problems going against it in a long-range galleon/spire with judicious use of moonshine, and the long reload time gave my guns a chance to retaliate in-between barrages. It can be countered (the push, at least) at range with some corrdination and good timing of pilot tools. 

The best use of it that I found, however, was on a galleon paired with a lesmok artimis and a lumberjack. It offers a complete long-range disable unmatched--I think the disable galleon (dalleon?) is gonna be meta soon.

Speaking of meta, the spire is totally viable with this gun. This gun can keep the blenderfish off of you and throw off the opponent's aim.

That said I think the gun is way too manueverable with it's arcs. There needs to be SOME way to approach this gun, but the arcs are too wide and the turning speed too fast--I found there was simply no way to approach a spire without my goldfish being spun 'round.

The push may need a nerf, but I'd rather wait and see if tweaking the arcs  can give that gun a small "blind spot" from which ships can close the distance--much like the carronade or artemis. I do think the disable power is waay to much. A buffed heavy can disable components in one shot. The wide arcs and pinpoint ranged accuracy make it all to easy to snipe out components.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:37:05 am by Kestril »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2015, 12:50:29 pm »
I played 2 games last night, one where I was using the Minotaur on a gold fish and one where a minotaur was hitting my Junker. I think the gun takes two ships out of the fight; the ship shooting it and the ship getting shot by it. For such a long range gun the vertical arcs on it are a huge.

I tried flying under a Bullfish and got pressed into the ground. The standard counter to long range harassment is to play the altitude game until you get inside arming range or outside gun arcs. This does not work very well against the Minotaur.

The gun feels like an attempt to give one team a way to disrupt snipers while brawling ships charge, but to sacrifice a medium gun mount for such a niche roll seems a bit excessive.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2015, 01:07:49 pm »
It's like what the old merc sounded like. RIP mobula and every other spire gun
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 01:09:32 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: Minotaur Heavy Cannon
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 01:49:46 pm »
The old merc was slightly worse in damage and no expanding hitbox with better arcs. How is that the same? Also, mercs still exist, and out range the mino. An easy hard counter.