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About the Minotaur
Arturo Sanchez:
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on February 25, 2015, 02:07:26 am ---
--- Quote from: MidnightWonko on February 25, 2015, 01:54:48 am ---I'm not sure this weapon should be doing piercing damage. It will almost invariably be aimed at a hull, where piercing is king of stripping armor.
It's already very good at its intended purpose of knocking around ships. In a game like this where positioning is crucial, a weapon like this is already a force to be reckoned with. To give it piercing damage as well just seems like overkill.
--- End quote ---
I think Muse once said there would never be a piercing heavy weapon. There was (and still is) talk about having it deal impact damage instead.
The amount of piercing per clip of heavy clip amounts to the same as 4 hades shots so it isn't much. I didn't check the shatter modifier but that probably contributes a chunk. Due to the long reload I haven't found the piercing much of an issue.
Does anyone know the reload?
--- End quote ---
Well after a discussion on this thing against my carro and your mino fish.
2 things were agreed on.
1. it made no sense to do piercing as its not piercing its knocking things about. that is impact. That mino hull break and terrain impact perma dmg was bollocks OP.
2. heavy clip mino is OP because of the high shatter. That gun worked like a long range carronade for component sniping and it ridiculously unfair when compared with the nature of other heavy guns. Its a freakin merc gun with crazy arc and an extra knockback effect. So we have agreed that thing needs less shatter dmg.
BlackenedPies:
--- Quote from: Maximillian Jazzhand on February 25, 2015, 08:52:16 pm ---
Well after a discussion on this thing against my carro and your mino fish.
2 things were agreed on.
1. it made no sense to do piercing as its not piercing its knocking things about. that is impact. That mino hull break and terrain impact perma dmg was bollocks OP.
2. heavy clip mino is OP because of the high shatter. That gun worked like a long range carronade for component sniping and it ridiculously unfair when compared with the nature of other heavy guns. Its a freakin merc gun with crazy arc and an extra knockback effect. So we have agreed that thing needs less shatter dmg.
--- End quote ---
But I like the shatter! It's even more powerful when buffed with heavy. We had double AI so it took my poor gunner 2 shots to disable your carro.
The piercing really isn't that much. It's equivalent to less than 4.5 hades every 15 seconds or so. When you're being shot burn kero/shine in increments to reduce movement.
From that match I learned that AI no longer target balloon with the light carronade, they're back to shooting components.
MidnightWonko:
--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on February 25, 2015, 06:18:46 pm ---I said Impact/piercing. No shatter. A gun that can knock an enemy out of arc should not also be able to destroy engines to keep it that way. Also, I said a reasonable amount. Bringing it anywhere near Lumber or Hellhound levels is unreasonable.
--- End quote ---
By my calculations (and I could be off, 'cause they got crazy complicated), the Minotaur, with direct piercing and splash impact, would do a bit more DPS to the balloon than the Dragon Tongue, and just marginally less to the hull. It would also do just slightly less damage than a Hades to the armor, yet have the bonus of never missing with Heavy Clip. With those damage types reversed, its damage to the balloon and hull would be just a little less than a Hades, yet would outrank a Hades for armor damage.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Seriously. The calculations I made got pretty complicated, and the equation required arcane references, resulting in obfuscating any errors I may have made. I'd love to have all the equations right before me from someone who was able to view it in a clear, understandable manner rather than the Da Vinci crap I've had to deal with.
Richard LeMoon:
I don't know. I would not use the current numbers so did not bother to figure it out.
Arturo Sanchez:
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on February 25, 2015, 09:05:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: Maximillian Jazzhand on February 25, 2015, 08:52:16 pm ---
Well after a discussion on this thing against my carro and your mino fish.
2 things were agreed on.
1. it made no sense to do piercing as its not piercing its knocking things about. that is impact. That mino hull break and terrain impact perma dmg was bollocks OP.
2. heavy clip mino is OP because of the high shatter. That gun worked like a long range carronade for component sniping and it ridiculously unfair when compared with the nature of other heavy guns. Its a freakin merc gun with crazy arc and an extra knockback effect. So we have agreed that thing needs less shatter dmg.
--- End quote ---
But I like the shatter! It's even more powerful when buffed with heavy. We had double AI so it took my poor gunner 2 shots to disable your carro.
The piercing really isn't that much. It's equivalent to less than 4.5 hades every 15 seconds or so. When you're being shot burn kero/shine in increments to reduce movement.
From that match I learned that AI no longer target balloon with the light carronade, they're back to shooting components.
--- End quote ---
Let's put things into perspective.
Your 2 AI (who are always bad apparently) were winning a dps war against 2 vets on blender fish. And me, a pilot who had to spam that kero like its an addiction to even get a few lucky shots at your balloon or your gun.
As you systematically lowered my mobility from both my kero use and component sniping and my own gun was mostly out of range to even put up a fight unless I drove and tanked REALLY hard.
This aint no gat mortar man. This is just 1 gun fully controlling a situation.
Its not like a lumberjack balloon lock where you need actual skill to aim that thing at long range. Or a carronade balloon lock where you need to get fairly close.
This thing can do its thing at any given range with barely any difficulty in accuracy.
My suggestion is as follows-effect and dmg diminishes with distance. Increase the base output sure, so its pretty good point blank and ok mid range.
sorta like a reverse arming time.
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