Author Topic: Ammo combine  (Read 8373 times)

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Ammo combine
« on: February 23, 2015, 07:37:44 pm »
Copy and pasted from dev app forum where an idea is being discussed... mostly by me but its an idea that has been on other peoples minds also.

Difficult to think of ways "instant ammo switch" can be easily implemented for goio.
Just for the record, not instant reload. Just combining ammo.

Should just call it ammo combine.
"While holding stamina, you will get effects from all of your equipped ammo."
That way, there will be no increase in how many shots you have unless you start off with an ammo type that gives you more ammo count, while it only combines the effects.

[So imagine a gunner on a Gattling gun. With Greased, Heavy clip and Lesmok, he will be able to buff the gattling to be able to fire at long(medium) and accurate ranges. Like it once did before. But remember this time it requiers a gunner and him to have stamina.]

[A gunner on HF with Charged, Loch and Lesmok can combine its effects for ultimate destructioooooon, albeit will hurt the gun]

[A gunner can load Heatsink on a mercury to get 3 shots, then use stamina with Charged and lesmok to hit his target real easy with 3 shots]

[Hwacha with Burst loaded then stamina with Charged and Incendiary, or heavy clip]

[Hcarronade with Heatsink reloaded, and heavyclip+Charged]

[Hades burst loaded: Charged+Greased]

And more

Take note, some combinations can make guns fire veeery slowly.


Vanilla ammo cannot do anything cus its default.
Lochnagar may be the only problematic or balancing ammo. Either exclude it, or keep it there as a way to make gunners reluctant in using stamina as a conflict of choice.

Eh... il keep thinking about it.


------------------------


Ammo combination Continued!

[Mine launcher: Load anything, have Lochnagar, charged, Incindiary]
Blow up the god damn ship

[Flamethrower: Load greased, have Incindiary + Lesmook]

[Carronade: Load greased, have incindiary + Heavyclip]

[Gattling: (greased reloaded) Charged+Greased+Burst]
New Short range Gattling meta better than buff engineer!!!

[Banshee: Greased loaded, Incendiary, burst]

[HF: Heatsink loaded: Charged+Greased]
Close range HF with 3 shots


-----------

Richard LeMoon

I have suggested being able to combine ammo types to make super ammos. It should not be a stamina thing, though, or at least not a gunner only stamina thing. A pilot or engineer could only combine special with standard, though, so it would be pointless in most circumstances.

It could work like so:

1. Select ammo to reload, click fire to lock.

2. Scroll/1234 second ammo, click to lock. Ammo types combine stats.

3. Gunner becomes OP, because Lesnagar.

4. ? ? ? ?

5 Profit.


------

MightyKeb

I was thinking once that what if ammo types saved on guns? For example if a gunner loaded lesmok on the left/right flamer of a blenderfish and an engi happens to get on it mid combat he's only gonna be able to fire off one lesmok clip, and thats assuming he doesnt just reload it right away with something else. So I'm saying what if it could be made so that even if you didnt have lesmok you could still use it on that specific flamethrower? It could be like a faded second-ammo-ish for engis. Now you could perhaps consider this a buff to all classes, but here's how I think it is:


Let's say you're on a hwachafish with a gatling on the side as a gunner. Your only viable ammo choices are Heavy Clip and Burst, usually you'd take Heatsink incase engies mess up their chem or are busy repairing, but you could instead take greased for your third ammo, call out for your gatling engi to take heavy and thus making the gatling equally versatile as the hwacha, thanks to the gunner. Perhaps a problem of it could be that one engi could take burst, other could take heavy, and a 3rd engi could take greased as heavy is viable between both the hwacha and gat, and just mix them up in their guns to actually nullify the gunner class instead. But what if instead it had some sort of cooldown or a limited amount of clips to fire before you ran out of that type of ammunition? Or hell, what if it was a gunner specific thing?


Or simply make it more clearer while ON the gun that it has a different ammo loaded in instead of going like, "Whoa, who left the flamer on 175 ammo? Imma reload immediately" by adding an ammo indicator. and make it so that you can save that one clip for an occassion.


--------

Crafeksterty

You just found your own problem for that idea.


I wonder... if gunners could combine in the fashion i stated. Without the need for stamina, would it still be gamebraking? Would engineers be unloved?
Like in todays goio. Would it create a new dynamic where some ships actualy has gunners or 2 gunners on it just for the sake of weapon power versus survivability?

If this were the case ide have 2 gunners and a buff engineer all day on my spire, and in some cases 3 gunners. Not kidding...


There still are ships like the mobula that suddenly i then would have the urge to have 1 gunner atleast.
I can see people putting atleast 1 gunner on a pyra, or 2 for a more specific build.
The 1 gunner on the junker is going to enjoy himself immensly.
The squid will get a firepower buff, heck it even may want to go dual gunner itself.
Galleons may still be conflicted to some degrees but atleast 1 gunner will be considered.

This also creates the Choice of conflict versus fires or builds where you are expected to have engineers to settle.
In the fear of that, every ship will atleast have 1 gunner on him.

I think i should make a new topic on this on the feedback section. Il copy paste these stuffs.

Offline Wundsalz

  • Member
  • Salutes: 72
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ammo combine
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 01:57:45 am »

Offline DJ Logicalia

  • Member
  • Salutes: 191
    • [♫]
    • 35 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ammo combine
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 02:18:48 am »
Cool idea. I like it

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ammo combine
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 02:35:15 am »
related: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3572.0.html

Woah i guess i was against the idea because that one was too specific.
Wheres here its more simply combining the stats to nullify or enhance the behaviour.

But its still ammo combining. I wonder if it is dooable within the game engine to simply change and add these stats of different ammo without too much work. (Ofcourse bugfixes)

Offline Dementio

  • Member
  • Salutes: 135
    • [Rydr]
    • 43 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ammo combine
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 02:39:22 am »
Also an opinion I kind of share:

After 15 seconds of consideration, these stood out to me as being problematic on most of the guns in the game:

Greased + burst = +45% RoF +40% clip size +50% AoE -20% damage -20% projectile speed
Greased + charged = +35% RoF +10% damage -20% projectile speed
Greased + lesmok = +50% projectile speed +30% projectile lift + 60% RoF -20% damage -10% clip size
Burst + lesmok = +70% projectile speed +30% projectile lift +50% AoE -10% clip size -15% RoF

You say "it's easy to do the math", yet you seem to have not seen the ramifications of combining multiple good ammo types, rather than only with ones already individually considered situational (as displayed in your three examples).

With 21 combinations, 17 guns, and 7 ships, the only limitation in coming up with ways this mechanic will break the game is time. Burst/lesmok Artemis sounds fun, right? Or burst/greased? What about dual mercs with charged/lesmok? How many seconds will it take to kill a ship with gat mortar now? How about burst/heavy in the hwacha? Or burst/heatsink with +50% clip size and AoE?

One of your examples was lesmok/heavy. How would that affect game balance if now a carrofish got heavy shots at your balloon from lesmok range? There's no downside either, because they can get the full clip size back at close range by switching to straight heavy.

I could sit here for hours and come up with an unending list of problematic combinations of multiple ammo types and guns. In the end it's all theorycrafting, but I think it's pretty clear that stating "it's easy to do the math" is a gross simplification of how such a mechanic would affect game balance.

Offline Crafeksterty

  • Member
  • Salutes: 73
    • [GwTh]
    • 17 
    • 28
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Ammo combine
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 12:19:56 am »
I dont know if that quote is talking of combining 2 ammo, or 3.
Is it Thomas's Sequential ammo combination? Or my 3 ammo combine one?

I dont know why Greased and Charged and (random) is problematic as then the GUNNER (not engineer) chooses 2 or more ammos to make one gun more effective.
Simply having the gunner can be a downfall, but having a gunner should also be offensively better.


The ammo types that dont fit well with 3 type combination is Heavy clip or Lesmok.
They dont have enough varying drawbacks other than -Clipsize.



With that said, gunner can have a fifth ammo selection that combines all equiped ammo, so on reload it has to be selected before its complete. That way clipsize can also play in the role of drawbacks as it wasnt suggested by me before.