Ship Selection Phase Idea (Hephaestus Challenge Season 2)

[Ruairi]

If a team knows the map they'll be on... Given that they have had enough time to plan their ships and tactics in advance, they shouldn't need to swap the loadouts they have sent to the event officials because they will be playing the map to their own strengths.

[Kamoba]

If a team knows the map they'll be on... Given that they have had enough time to plan their ships and tactics in advance, they shouldn't need to swap the loadouts they have sent to the event officials because they will be playing the map to their own strengths.

Some peoples strengths are in tactical choices, also lock in the weapons and this will just encourage people to pick the "metamidion" not because it is their own strengths but because it is the "safer" choice.
And if the rule being implemented is to.encourage less use of this one ship and build, locking ship and weapon choice pre-match would do.the opposite.

[Ruairi]

As stated before this idea constitutes a blind pick, there is no real safe choice... You have no idea what you may be up against. Hence you observe what map you are on and choose what you are most comfortable with. If that ends up being a metamidion, then so be it. The problem here isn't a metamidion being chosen, but rather being hard countered. By locking ships along with loadouts you will only be bringing ships with loadouts you believe that will be effective on that set map.

[Mean Machine]

What about each team picking and locking one ship prior match (without each other knowing what they pick ofc)? And then they can choose whatever they want for second ship once they get in a lobby. So that wouldn't make things too complicated and limited, but still limited enough so there wouldn't be endless ship swapping on both sides and would still require some thinking and strategizing depends on the map and enemy you're facing.
This would equally limit both teams and give them enough freedom (with second choice) to decide if they want to choose a counter to enemy or pick a support to their ally or whatever.

Like people already said, complicating too much might just turn it into a mess and not fun experience, so I think this idea wouldn't limit any teams too much, but enough to think about what they will pick and unable them to freely swap both their ships 10x in lobby.

EDIT:

Also

The game is already won in the lobby in most cases, so you might as well make the lobby strategy more interesting. But who cares what a casual scrub thinks.

Just curious... Are you related to Cerersbane? If not, you gotta be at least best buddies?

[Dementio]

I'm mostly trying to find a way around the "lobby counter game". I feel that it isn't organized or fun to play in.

You are suggesting a "lobby counter game" that requires more thinking. If it isn't a blind pick then there will always be a counter game in the lobby, unless a team knows what the other team is used to fly and might just be trying to counter that.

A picking or banning system is less fun than what normally happens.

[Puppy Fur]

I'm mostly trying to find a way around the "lobby counter game". I feel that it isn't organized or fun to play in.

You are suggesting a "lobby counter game" that requires more thinking. If it isn't a blind pick then there will always be a counter game in the lobby, unless a team knows what the other team is used to fly and might just be trying to counter that.

A picking or banning system is less fun than what normally happens.

Currently, it's just switching ships and weapons up until the last second. Hopefully, there is a different way of doing things.

[Dementio]

As long as it isn't an unexpected last second switch, I am ok with this.

Yes, there are different ways, but only one has been tested in a test SCS, the picking system, and it hasn't been implemented in the SCS. If you want to get feedback from experience you should start competitive matches with various different systems of ship/weapon picking and see what the actual results are.

[BlackenedPies]

The big problem I see with this suggestion is that it bans ships. There aren't enough ships to choose from and it would be complicated to ban specific loadouts.

My idea is have each side bring a ship into the lobby. Give each team a one time hidden option to switch. Each team sends a message to the ref for what they will switch to. This way the teams don't know what the other will do. After the optional switch the match starts.

Sure there would be deception and frustration, but also strategy.

[Dutch Vanya]

Maybe the squid/spire buffs and slight pyra nerf will be enough for ship banning to be pointless.

[Urz]

Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. The format was divisive at the time and the scrimmages never happened, partially because I was a competitor and focused on playing in other events.

The first event I did actually organize, Sky Tournament (May 2013), had a much simpler ruleset involving a blind pick. Each team captain would submit their ship builds to a website prior to the match, and the builds would be validated by the lobby ref. In subsequent games the winner of the previous was locked to their build. The Sky Tournament went smoothly, but most teams didn't care enough about counterpicking to warrant the additional complexity and hassle. Based on the feedback in this thread, it seems that is still the majority opinion.

I would recommend, if you wish to pursue an advanced counterpicking ruleset, would be to do as I proposed in that original thread. Find interested teams and run a weekly scrimmage for a while to test the gameplay implications and gauge community reaction, rather than suggesting its immediate use in a major competition.