Author Topic: Piloting help please and thank  (Read 13643 times)

Offline Dwarph

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Piloting help please and thank
« on: November 26, 2014, 04:46:37 am »
Okay, so i want to start piloting a bit more. I've got about 200+ hours in the game with level 13 gunner/pilot and a 27 engi and I fancy having another go at flying the ships I've been repairing. Any tips or tricks I should know about? What not to use, advanced level play such as popping the balloon to go down faster ect? I can fly a metamidion (much like anyone can) but I'd like to branch out.  8)

Offline Dwarph

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2014, 05:19:52 am »
ooh and pointing me to any useful forum threads would be ace uwu

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 07:55:47 am »
Well, it depends on what you want to learn.  I'm still a newb myself, and more of one than you, but if you'll accept some basic tips, here goes.

Communicate!: Teamwork OP, remember that.

Learn your gun arcs: If you don't have guns on target, you aren't killing it.  That's bad.

Powersliding: Full throttle, build up speed, and then cut engines and swing to the side.  If manuevering, full throttle again.  If not, just keep pace on your target.

Goldfish Ram thread: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5189.msg85466.html#msg85466

Evasive Maneuvers thread: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5138.0.html

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2014, 08:39:37 am »
Alot of thinbgs come from experience and feel.
Just a few hints.
Turning is faster when you are stable. But to turn fast from moving forward i'd suggest going reverse and turning then.
This allows you to get enemies in gunarcs much faster. Just gotta go forward at the correct time again.

Use altitude to dodge. If your above or below youre enemies they cant shoot at you and you are able to catch a breath. If you need more time you can try and stay below or above your enemy to get some more seconds.

The more stable you are the easier your crew will hit the enemy. Movement messes up alot of aiming.

Beware with ramming. Yes a good ram can do alot of work but a bad ram can mess up even more.

Try to keep the enemy in gunarcs. Dont go fullspeed at the enemy and pass him. Use the different throttle modes. Go slower or go reverse to keep an enemy in arc and in perfect range.

And obviously know your guns and your enemies guns and play with your teammate. Youre not one ship against one ship youre 2v2. Use that. Charging head on in two enemies will get most people killed without any positive result for themselves.

And use the map. Noone forces you to simply charge head on in the enemies spawn area. Take your time to outmaneuver the enemy and come from a awkward angle for him.

Offline Ightrril

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 08:54:13 am »
When ramming the pilot tool you use can drastically affect the outcome. Hitting the enemy ship with Kerosene or Moonshine on can help you nudge them out of arc, but a poor hit will leave you behind them facing the wrong way. On the other hand, if you ram with Phoenix Claw then your hit probably won't be as effective but if it's done right you may keep arcs after the collision (such as if the other ship would otherwise just fly on past you).

Also, of course, try not to get shot at. If you are flying a quick, manoeuvrable ship (such as Goldfish or Squid) against a ship that wants to keep distance (long-ranged builds) then it can help to fly not directly towards them but at an angle to make it more difficult for their gunners. Changing altitude can help too.

The only time I'd suggest popping your balloon on purpose would be if you are either trying to keep arcs with a ship which is below you (which can happen fairly often with a ship that has carronades) or you are desperate to get to cover (particularly against long-range Galleons). It only really works when your balloon is already heavily damaged though. If you do this make sure to let your crew know though, often it helps if your balloon engineer doesn't fully rebuild the balloon but instead rebuilds it to one hit away so you can ask them to finish it off when you are at the altitude you want.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 10:19:32 am »
And this is why I love CA's.  I'm keeping a close eye on this thread.

Offline Admiral Ackbar RTDT

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 11:10:39 am »
As far as ships to check out first I find the Junker, Goldfish and Pyramidion to be the easiest to fly. The key is to find the load out and ships that work best for your flying style. There are lots of good load outs but not all pilots are good at all of them. I also really like the Phoenix Claw. Talking not only with your crew but also with the other ships will help you win more games and looking at the map helps you make better decisions. You can also learn a lot by watching some of the tournaments on YouTube. Hope those ideas help you get started. Good luck flying.

~Unleash the KRAGon
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 11:15:44 am by Admiral Ackbar RTDT »

Offline Dwarph

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 11:27:12 am »
awesome! thanks for all the ideas so far. I'll keep them in mind.  :)
Gotta keep remembering to maneuver within a 3D space to dodge ect.

Offline TeddyBearMafia

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 11:57:35 am »
Let me offer my two cents, especially as I try to rapidly improve my own flying as well.

I would start by saying that often,less is more. You will see pilots pulling the fanciest maneuvers in pub games and doing some crazy business... but everytime you place excessive reliance on your crew doing everything perfectly and not losing a key engine to an artemis shot in a middle of a maneuver, you create risk for things to go wrong. That's why I, and many others, would advise that you don't do what I do and be excessively ram happy. Ramming incorrectly is likely to put your ship in a terrible position and open you up to a response from the ship that you should have killed.

Ergo, first priority is get your ship in gun arcs. Point your ship at the enemy.

Second priority is figure out your safety: if you're being shot at by both ships, or by a ship that you can't quickly disable and turn the tables on, then you have to get out of there. Again, less is more. Are they trying to ram your mobula with a pyramidion? Drop down below them or hydrogen above them, then accelerate forward and create some distance between the two ships so you can re-engage safely. Don't try to combine a whole bunch of tricky turns and elevation changes, especially if your have a new crew that is having trouble keeping up with the strain you are putting on the engines.

Third priority is movement: you want to make sure that in the near future, you will still be situated to complete priorities 1 & 2. As such, you evaluate whether or not the opposing ship is moving backwards or forwards, or if there's another ship sneaking up behind you that you will need to deal with shortly. It's very helpful to constantly be checking your map (M) in order to make sure that everything is still going like you planned.

Finally, communication! Talk, talk, talk. Let people know what you're going to do, and what part they'll play in your plan. Do you want to ignore the downed balloon in favour of a few more mortar shots for a possible kill? Tell your engineer that! And so on, and so forth.

Good luck with piloting in the crazy world out there!

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 12:28:25 pm »
It mostly depends on your enjoyment. How you play and explore.
To me atleast.

As you play, see what ship is most interresting and most fun to use.
When you find one approxamitley, know how a gunners/eningeers do on a gun. Are they having a hard time? Is the weapons being difficult for them?
Playing as engineer and gunner should give you the correct insight on how possible the ship can deliver is offencive and how it can be defencive.

So possible crew management is the BEST thing you can learn when playing as a pilot. Giving possible orders that need happen to achive what the ship has to do.
But, this is the key word here. POSSIBLE.

You have to know what loadout your crew should have for repair and guns. When and where. So do not expect the engineer on the hull to repair the hull when you go into a line of fire of 2 ships. In that case, it should be understandable that you will not be able to sustain much burst damage and therefore focus more on your gunners doing their job when you go into them like that.

Direct things to do.
-Order your crew politeley
-Give them easy enough jobs especialy if they are incompatent.
-Bind MAP to Q so you can constantly see your awareness in maps.
-Dont use spyglass, make your crew use it. You will have a third spot for another pilot tool.
-Cordinate with your Ally, if he isnt, use him in some way.
-When enemy is spotted, use map to see what direction he is facing and where he is going on when you are Above him or Under him.
-Take time to learn what a ships specialty is.

Direct things to NOT do
-Dont Move the ship too much as you fire. Turning while they shoot with the spire or moving a galleon while they fire will make their shots sqewn.
-Dont give too hard of jobs.
-Dont ram because you want to. Ram because you will hit.
-Dont fly alone
-Dont fly into dangerous territory.
-Dont meat grind (Fly in one by one, take the time to wait for your ally to be with you)
-Dont do dumb builds unless the crew agrees to it.

Offline nanoduckling

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 01:58:52 pm »
So one thing to note here is that typically a pilot gets two roles for the price of one (which is why it is often seen as the most mentally taxing of the jobs on the ship), you are also typically a captain as well as a pilot.

Lots of people have given you good piloting advice here so I wont bother to go into detail on that (besides I'm a mediocre pilot). There is some good captaining advice here too, but I'm just going to throw some thoughts in the mix.

You could serve under an engi or gunner captain if you just want to practice your flying. This isn't a terrible idea as far as practice goes but it is a temporary measure while you learn to fly in combat conditions (you should fly every ship you plan to take out in the blast yard first to get an idea of their capabilities, but you will really only learn what they can do when people are shooting at you at the same time). The reason it is temporary is that the captain has to act as an information conduit between ships and the crew and makes most of the strategic and tactical decisions; the pilot is in the best position to implement those decisions immediately. Putting an engi or gunner in that role will almost always add time between making a decision and implementing it and that is costly.

Captaining is one of those things that is full of subjective judgements and lots of people will have lots of ideas about how to do it, so I'm not going to say what you should do, I'm going to tell you some of the things I try (and often fail) to do and why and you can decide for yourself it will work for you.

This isn't an actual military. You cant court martial your crew and you have no authority. If I want my orders (although I rarely give orders as such, "let's go say hi to that Pyramidion" isn't much of an order) followed I find it is best to convince folks to follow them by showing them it gets them something they want (be that a fun experience, winning matches, playing with the toys they want to play with). If you get to know your crew, get to know what they are after and try to provide them with it you'll find folks want to fly with you and will do what you say under pressure.

No player is perfect, and most crews don't expect you to be. Failure to acknowledge your mistakes (or worse blaming your mistakes on your crew) wont win you any friends however. When you screw up, admit it. Don't linger on it, don't look for sympathy either, just say "I did X wrong, in future I will try to do Y" and move on. By admitting your mistakes you make it clear to your crew you know there is a problem, and by saying how you will do things differently you show them that you are learning and will avoid (as much as possible) similar mistakes in the future.

Any plan is often better than no plan. If no one is taking charge then ships will be poorly co-ordinated and will often be picked off one by one. If no one is leading I will often just step up and do it. Let's say the ideal ship to target is X, and you tell your ally to join you attacking Y. This is usually still better than you attacking Y and them attacking X and failing to focus fire. If the other captain is more experienced or seems to have better situational awareness I let them call the shots, but if no one steps up, odds are pretty good you will only make the situation better by taking charge.

If a match is going to be hard I find it beneficial to make it clear to crew (especially inexperienced crew) that this is the case. We often seek validation in others opinions of us and I don't want to leave people with the impression I think they suck. If your ally has a massive pile of derp, the enemy is two experienced captains and that gunner you know never misses, meanwhile you have a couple of level threes who you are still teaching chem cycles then setting expectations of victory and glory is foolhardy. I try to make the standard on my ship fighting hard and never giving up, not winning constantly.

I try to make sure I know something about what is required of my crew in the roles I'm assigning. Don't have to be good at it, just know what being good means. You are going to have to teach powder monkeys, and you may as well make the best of that. Since you have some experience in other roles this shouldn't be a problem (although knowing something and knowing how to teach it are two entirely different things).

Have fun and happy flying.

Offline Admiral Ackbar RTDT

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 02:34:34 pm »
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you can still jump of the hull to repair things. If your balloon is down or all engines are down you can't do much until they are up. On most ships the balloon is close to the helm so you can quickly jump off and hit it with your spanner. For example on the junker you only have to look up. Just be carful when leaving the helm. Putting the ship in neutral before jumping off will keep your ship from running off or turning when your engines get back up.

Offline Mean Machine

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 02:43:31 pm »
I'll keep it short and point out some wrong things that I see 80% new pilots doing.

- Don't show engines to your enemy
- Don't rely TOO MUCH on side guns, a lot of new pilots (especially i see it on goldfish) use that side flamer more than front gun :S Front gun is your primary weapon! Don't turn arcs away when front gun is reloaded! Learn reload times and then you can properly use both, front and side guns. Also communicate with your gunner.
- Don't use pilot tools like hydrogen just because. Use them only when it's absolutely needed, when you want to keep arcs, avoid hitting wall/rocks, when dodging etc..
- Don't fly with AI.
- Tell your crew what loadouts they should take. Tell them what are their positions and roles on ship.
- Communicate with your ally, if they dont reply, follow them and stick together.
- Don't fly junker with same weapons on both sides.

The fact that you have some experience with gunner and engineer that's very good, use that knowledge when you pilot. It will help you a lot. Good luck and have fun!

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Piloting help please and thank
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 04:50:52 pm »
Want to get good, work on keeping your ship alive first, then build on that. All allies are expendable until you get it down. This focuses you on mastering 1v1 and thinking steps ahead. Understanding what your enemy is thinking and preparing ahead of time to counter. Then you apply those skills to allies and you'll find you are better to fly with. When your ally doesn't have to worry about you handling yourself, it frees them up to focus more on tactics and strategy. Same can be said for you. The best allies I've ever flown with, are the ones I don't have to be talking to or constantly checking the map for. When that doesn't happen, I end up constantly checking on their status which distracts from what I should be doing. This is a nail in the coffin for boats which rely on one another to be effective. If one goes down, the other can't to squat. End up losing a lot of matches.

I can't tell ya how many matches I've flown in now where even though my ally had a good build, I had absolutely no confidence in their flying. Usually in pubs you can just take a squid or munker then leave them to die. Pick off a couple kills for your trouble. But in veteran matches, oh its painful. You approach every engagement knowing its going to turn into a 2v1 and when that happens you just don't even want to engage.

I've flown with lots and the best pilots I've ran with are the ones who I don't have to worry about. I can just relay positions and ship placement and then realize they're either already in that position or going to it. Zuka used to be like this when I'd fly with him. Half the time he'd be drunk at the keyboard having a blast but for some reason, it never diminished his pilot skill to the point I'd have to constantly worry how he'd die or how I'll get out of a 2v1 after it. I'd be like..."Lets flank, attack two sides. This rock, that rock." he'd go: "*Zuka Giggle* YEAH LETS GET THOSE FILTHY PEASANTS!" If something went wrong, he'd be tanking till I arrived. Live through it with a sliver of HP but he'd be there. Then he'd go on and get another couple kills before going down. Why I'd never worry. Even if his ship was torn up, he'd be effective.

You could gauge all this this by calculating your K/D ratio, but Muse removed the stats last patch and screwed pilots here. So best thing I can say is to keep mental track. If you consistently go into matches where you score 3+ kills with few deaths, then you're getting there. Shows you think before you engage. Even if you lose the match thats fine. More important that you do well than it is winning the match. At least until you master it, then you can work on winning. Course winning starts coming naturally as you do better.