Author Topic: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility  (Read 9939 times)

Offline nhbearit

  • Member
  • Salutes: 27
    • [Duck]
    • 17 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« on: October 27, 2014, 09:48:40 pm »
Levels in GoIO are kinda weird. Since there are three almost independent level values (pilot, engineer, gunner), it can be pretty hard to estimate a player's abilities. A level 24 whatever, can be better then a level 40 of the same class. However, there are some VERY important milestones that allow you to estimate what that player can do, and how much direction they need. For example level 1, whenever I see this I have to check the player's other levels (and sometimes their profile) to get some important information; namely is this their first match/have they played the tutorials? Another milestone is level 12, this is generally a pretty good indicator of "can I count on this player to do their job without me having to babysit them?" If a player's over level 12 it's pretty safe to assume that they don't need a crash course on their position when the match starts.

A simple way to put this would be that the lower a player's level, the more it matters. While not being able to see levels at a glance might not seem like a huge deal, GoIO is all about communication and coordination. If I can quickly tell what my crew/captain can do, as well as my allies, I can make useful observations/comments, and plan my ship/loadout around what everyone can do. It also allows me to get a better match if I help my enemies. If I see that an entire ship is level 1, it allows me to help them by pointing out things like "You do not need two gunners on your ship." or "gat/flak is actually a pretty bad combo, you might want to try out gat/mortar instead." And while they might not listen, I can also do things like remove flamers from my ship's loadout. Being able to estimate what a player can do let's me take small actions that give both of us a better match.

The thing is, I need to be able to see the levels of the ENTIRE lobby if I really want to make an impact. Being able to see what the entire lobby can do, lets me put myself in the best slot to make the most even/fun match. The problem with the matchmaking system is that it doesn't really understand its players. Most of the time, I don't really care what position/class I'm in, as long as it's a fun match. The matchmaking system seems to have a fundamental flaw in it, it assumes that players want to win the match. A match in GoIO isn't simply about winning, I don't think ANYBODY who plays this game enjoys being on either side of a 5-0 match. Whenever I play a GoIO match, my goal isn't "I want to win this match as quickly and easily as possible." my goal is more "I want to win this match in such a way that I (and any crew) get better at the game." In short, I want every match to be a 5-4 that tests my skill as a player. And I don't know any non-novice player who wants simply to win. The matchmaking system seems to be good at starting lobbies quicker, but you need to trust your playerbase to take actions that give them the most fun (and most well-balanced) matches.

Offline Omniraptor

  • Member
  • Salutes: 51
    • [Duck]
    • 27 
    • 45
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 12:45:49 am »
I agree. Suggest changing public level indicator into a simple novice vs non-novice boolean, instead of irrelevant integer. We could keep the numbers on private profiles, or on public leaderboards.

Offline Omniraptor

  • Member
  • Salutes: 51
    • [Duck]
    • 27 
    • 45
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 01:40:27 am »
Sorry for double post, thought about it some more. Perhaps we should make it three categories- bottom 10% of experience, middle 87%, top 3% (random numbers, not serious). So if you worked suuper hard to grind xp you would get rewarded with an (optional) special color name or tag or whatever, and other players could ask you questions and fawn over your rank etc.

But this would be top of ALL PLAYERS, or there could even be a limited number of slots. So, the top 20 players or the top 5% of players would get a special token as reward, as would the noobs so it's easier to help and accomodate them. But those are the 'tails' of player time distribution, edge cases.

However the vast majority of all players would see no distinction in rank, and would be judged solely by how they perform in-game. I think that's a good thing for middle-skill players.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 135
    • [ψ꒜]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 01:57:57 am »
Increase the number of categories to 45 and you'll have current leveling system :P

Offline Omniraptor

  • Member
  • Salutes: 51
    • [Duck]
    • 27 
    • 45
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 12:33:18 pm »
Yeah, but the difference is, most players aren't level 45 now, but they still get judged based on their level even when it's irrelevant (not novice). That's bad, because there is no certain difference between level 15 vs level 30, but there is an almost certain difference between level 2 and level 15.

Or perhaps the 'novice' label should be time-based, like if you've spent less than 8 hours in-match you're a novice.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 135
    • [ψ꒜]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 01:06:29 pm »
But levels do matter. They show experience, which is not skill per se but is really important.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 01:37:54 pm »
But levels do matter. They show experience, which is not skill per se but is really important.
Not really.

If you want to show experience, might as well just make the number displayed be amount of games played.

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 01:46:26 pm »
But levels do matter. They show experience, which is not skill per se but is really important.
Not really.

If you want to show experience, might as well just make the number displayed be amount of games played.

I would be fine with this.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

  • Member
  • Salutes: 135
    • [ψ꒜]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 23 
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 02:21:29 pm »
Meh, good enough. Although since level is connected with match number (and much more) it's still a better indicator.

Offline KitKatKitty

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 41
    • [SPQR]
    • 27 
    • 45
    • View Profile
Re: The Importance of Levels and Player Flexibility
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 02:22:30 pm »
I agree completely with Bearit! 100%. The levels of players effects much more than just winning and losing.
If you want to show experience, might as well just make the number displayed be amount of games played.
This isn't a bad idea and it would be better than the current no levels. But I still feel like Muse worked so hard for the new leveling system that we should just go back to showing the levels as before. No one asked for them to be changed.