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a theory of the birth and death of the competitive scene

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Wundsalz:
I think introducing league formats which allow teams to face opponents of similar strength would help a great deal to keep new clans motivated.


--- Quote from: nhbearit on September 22, 2014, 11:55:53 pm ---So.. I am confused. By your own definition, being a "weaker" pillar is just about how often a team/clan does competitive events.

--- End quote ---
At the moment we only see one team for events. About a year ago you've had 3 teams which all showed up in major events. Hence your pillar in Skrims model has been weakened by 2/3rds since then.

Squidslinger Gilder:
Well to be fair the ducks have taken breaks from competitive. Course most teams have done this. Other times they haven't competed...beats me. You'd have to ask them.

Isn't the Sunday events already sort of an Unranked play day? How bout just doing that. Run Saturdays as Ranked matches and Sunday as Unranked. There you have your vets on one and newbs on the other. Course there will be people that want to play both days. Nothing you can do about that. Maybe limit it so a Ranked team cannot enter an Unranked event with the same roster or if they do the same roster, they must switch up who pilots/etc.

Skrimskraw:
nhbearit.

My definition is in no way describing ducks as a lesser clan than others. The Weak / Strong description has only to do with the clans participation in various events. a team like rydr or thralls who have been in both saturday / sunday events is in my definition considered strong pillars due to their consistent participation. Ducks however are considered a weak pillar due to participation in only some events, true ducks participated in hephaestus, but so did merry men who still like to take part when something big happens, but weekly events like sunday skirmish they dont participate in.

the idea of this is that to keep clans interested there has to be a competitive scene, and if there is a competitive scene, then it has to have clans. the two doesn't work without eachother. A casual clan in this topic is by definition not interesting to look at. This is about the competitive scene and how we can see that many teams are disappearing. My own clan will probaly go inactive after r&d, I stop playing competitive due to wanting a break, and the general feeling in the clan is that they need a break aswell. We do not promise that we will come back, but we also do not promise that we wont come back. But fact is that when something like this happen that clan/team is gone and no longer relevant to the competitive scene, part of its history yes, but not part of the future.

I am really loving the discussion and ideas coming from everyone, it's interesting to see everyone's perspective.

If you feel like that my definitions are too vague or wrong, it is completely alright to argue that they should change or possible there should be three tiers of clan strenght.

Hoja Lateralus:

--- Quote from: Swiftpaw on September 23, 2014, 02:15:03 am ---It'sad to say, but for me, pub matches are not fun anyway.

Pub patches have:

-long lobby times
-lots of players that would fit into novice matches,
-lots of players that won't listen to captain,
-trolls/harrasors,
-Inappropriate chat/lobby full of immature players
-impatient players aka "ready-up!!!! guys",
-unbalanced matches (one sided) which leads to non fun matches,
-opponents with AI crew (not fun to fight),
-ragequitting crew, especially it's annyoing when captain ragequit
....

Only lobbies that are fun are half organized one - high level lobbies, where people invite their high level friends...

--- End quote ---

So much this.

Currently there's too little players to have some kind of haven for experienced players to hide from noobs and for noobs to hide from experienced players.

nhbearit:
Skrim, my problem with your definition is that, towards the end of your original post, you called the ducks a FORMERLY strong(which by your definition means reliable) team. From a reliability standpoint, I don't think much has changed. I think we still do the same events now as we did before. If there are any specifics you'd like to talk about concerning this, please, send me a pm. I don't really want to clutter up this forum with this topic.

Swiftpaw, I might be a little weird in this regard, but when I said fun pub match, I meant a pub match where I can experiment. It needs to be a lobby where the players are good enough so that I'm not annoyed by them. but the players can't be too good either. If they're too good I'd have to try too hard to win, which means I won't have the flexibility to experiment. To me, pub matches are all about experimentation, and introducing new players to the game.

Wundsalz, I didn't think that the third team ever actually competed, those were pretty hectic times though, so I could have missed/forgotten it. But, regardless, It would have been a VERY brief spike. As for only having one team currently competing, well, this is why I called the original post too narrow. When you're taking the entire history of competitive GoIo into account, you're going to see spikes and fluctuations. If we want to help the competitive seen, we need to be able to see through those fluctuations and identify any underlying problems, if there are any. Now, I don't think that the league format that you suggest would work for very long, you'd get the same few teams competing against each other repeatedly, which would get boring really quickly and wouldn't really help newer teams grow because of that repetition. (Which might have been seen in an old version of cogs, I'd have to double check that though)

I think in general, having a separate tournament for newer players is a bad idea. Just like what's currently happening in novice matches, you'll probably see them start to specialize in builds that wouldn't work in higher tier competitive matches. I think that our goal, as a community, should be to get these new teams ready for real competitive matches. I think we can all agree, that the more good competitive teams we get, the better the competitive scene (and this game) will be. So, how do we get more teams up to a competitive level?

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