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Lydia Litvyak:

--- Quote from: Keyvias on September 19, 2014, 01:13:43 pm ---@Lydia,
I can't speak for the community, but I can speak for the dev staff. We would never ask you to be quiet and I'll be honest how we look takes such a far back seat to how our players feel. As I said I welcome any discussion on the topic.

Interesting side note: you have one of the highest report to capture ratios. (Basically how many of your reports turn into warnings and/or bans.) So thank you for the effective reports.

--- End quote ---
I have every faith that you the rest of muse are doing your best to prevent harassment and keep it under control. I do think a notification or something when reports get handled could be nice, though: it would remove the illusion that nothing ever happens once people are reported.

As a side note, I am not completely happy with the recent changes to the report system. In my experience reporting someone for something tends to provoke an outburst, and what's more if I am reporting them for something they said to me more often than not they can tell it is me reporting them. But I will defer to other people's judgement on that.


--- Quote from: Omniraptor on September 19, 2014, 04:10:24 pm ---This might be a bad idea, but IMO it's also super important to call out harassment as the BS it is, loudly and publicly. This is directed at everyone, mostly dudes because face it, we're the majority here. If we, the (hopefully decent) majority make it clear that harassing people for any reason (including the sound of their perecived gender) is bad, it will create a chilling effect and stop the harassment before it is said. More fun for everyone except the harassers.

--- End quote ---

This is really important. Many men are doubtful when I tell them that harassers will listen to random men telling them to stop over the woman they are harassing, but trust me, it is true. I mean, if somebody disrespects women so much that they feel entitled to make obscene comments about us, do you really expect them to care when we tell them we don't like it? On top of that, when a man attacks a woman and the other men in the lobby don't say anything about it, he takes it as tacit approval. He feels safe engaging in that kind of behavior, while the woman feels (rightfully) that she cannot rely on anyone around her to stop these things from happening.
And even aside from that, speaking up when you see this sort of thing happen tells the victim that they are not alone and that the people around them have their back.

There are people in the goio community who are good about speaking up when this happens, and I really appreciate it. But it needs to be everyone, not just some.

Imagine:

--- Quote from: Omniraptor on September 19, 2014, 04:10:24 pm ---2. Forum denizens. Mezhu's a great guy. He also thought that "borg" was bad enough that it deserved its own satirical parody "morg". That's a little weird, because I don't see anything in "borg" bad enough to be worth mocking, but evidently mezhu disagrees. I'd like to know why. He doesn't deserve to be yelled at like that. I really don't get the joke either, but that's no excuse for making graphic references to mezhu's genitals. Not cool.

--- End quote ---

I've made this known a few people, but might as well state it here: Until that is resolved, I'm going to do the only thing I can, which is refuse to cast any match Mezhu's in.

sparklerfish:
There was a brief period of time when I didn't have a microphone, and honestly it was sort of a relief because I was spared the "OMG YOU'RE A GIRL????" and the ensuing harassment/patronizing remarks.  It definitely is a problem with being a girl on the internet, and especially in gaming communities, in general, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to tackle the problem here or that such attempts are futile.  I don't really know what the solution is other than reporting/blocking, though...

B'Elanna:

--- Quote ---Mezhu's a great guy.
--- End quote ---
The first time I noticed him was when he appeared in a lobby I was getting harassed in.
I don't want to go into the details but it wasn't just the usual (YES. sadly there is a "usual"), it was particularly sexually aggressive and I was at the brink of tears, and thank god Mezhu was there.
He was kind enough to tell me that it was my fault for behaving the way I did and that my "cuteness" invited this abuse.
And man did I learn form it, who would have thought.
What a guy.

I'm not out to hurt him, but god I don't care about his feeling getting hurt when his "über ironic" 3deep5you joke didn't get the response he wished for.
If you try to be "socially critical" you invite a discussion.
I didn't. I just invited people into a mumble server one day a month.
All I need to do to invite all this debate is challenge your delusion about equality.
And patriarchy has a very fragile ego it seems when even suggesting I want female company feels like a threat.

(even though I quoted Omniraptor, this is just an elaboration of ONE aspect he mentioned.
NOT answering him, attacking him or correcting him. It's not a personal interaction.
I hope you understand that Omniraptor. I do appreciate a lot you say! I really mean that.
This is the only thing you said so far that I disagree with.)



--- Quote ---As a side note, I am not completely happy with the recent changes to the report system. In my experience reporting someone for something tends to provoke an outburst, and what's more if I am reporting them for something they said to me more often than not they can tell it is me reporting them. But I will defer to other people's judgement on that.

--- End quote ---

I really agree actually!
The problem with reporting people:[*]User Interface
The UI makes me oblivious to the match starting.
I've been interrupted by starting matches and had to start over from scratch a lot.
Sometimes I didn't attempt a second time and that is a shame.
Could there be a "drafts" folder, or could at least reopening the report UI show the last typed not-sent message? That would really change the ratio of my harassment/report ratio.
[*]Immediate Notification
As Lydia mentioned, since we're often the only ones taking offence (except for when we play with friends in the same lobby that support us) it's often really obvious that the only report filed is from us, and even if it's not just one they still know it's because of us and it makes them become really uncomfortable towards us, and often it's worse than just "getting over it" meaning, brush it off, feel like shit and just try to forget it happened.
Solutions to his could be a few: showing up that you have been reported only when relogging, making it an e-mail notice only, etc.
But I REALLY would appreciate it being changed. In any way really.
[*]The "why bother" factor.
Again Lydia already mentioned that.
Some notice, even a default mail would be better than nothing. Not automated. Sent really whenever some issue has been addressed in ANY way.
The "discretion" law you enforce, protects the abuser and silent discipline to the point of not even admitting something has been done about a problem that was reported, deleting forum posts that perpetuate sexism, telling women to just block people. That all doesn't make it go away.
It hides the fact that it happens.
[/list]
Additionally!!! [*]"Just block them"
The reason I rarely block:
I want to know. I can't just ignore it.
I am not the only one they are gonna be horrible towards.
It's important to that I know if they are attacking other women. And ignoring them doesn't make them go away. It makes them wander off with not a care in the world, because they achieved what they wanted. They made the bitch shut up.
[/list]

Omniraptor:
It's completely possible for two people to form different impressions of mezhu, and both could well be true. For example usually (sort of) friendly, but on some days (and with some people) I snap.  Mezhu was like that once, perhaps he's like that all the time and I didn't notice (I probably wouldn't notice anyway because I'm not a target for this).

I really don't want to discuss mezhu like this, would rather let him speak for himself.

Also, iirc the devs have mentioned in a fireside they're planning to implement a randomized delay between report and notification, so people won't lash out against the perceived reporter.

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