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Junker viability and builds
BlackenedPies:
Trifectas are quite easy on a junker if you use guns with good arcs. Two very simple trifectas are the triple artemis and triple banshee. When the front gun reloads, the main engi chems the gun and chems the hull. Hull takes priority over shooting.
Having a dedicated repair or buff engi is not efficient because you're losing firepower and the parts are too far away. Stuff will break. The armor is very important and any lost time repairing it can be fatal. The junker has the lowest hull health in the game.
Repairing the armor from the front is not a gimmick, it's necessary to making the junker work. Once you practice repairing it, it will become second nature. Stand by the side and look up.
In casual play you will eventually end up fighting good players who try to win. I want you to have the best chance of success, and the meta set up is your best chance. When you fight an experienced ship and have a gunner you will lose. Fighting easy opponents should be practice for when you get a challenge. Otherwise you will not be prepared.
Update: pyra bifecta works because the pyra is easy to crew. Their prevalence in pub matches is because they're very easy compared to other ships. In reality the pyra is a weak ship that is easily countered. Pyra trifectas are possible, and one of my favorite ships is the triple mine pyra. But when engaging with a pyra you are usually only using the front guns.
Kain Phalanx:
Just because the hull trick is necessary for your crew layout to work doesn't mean it's not a gimmick. I have also not said that I find it hard. It's simply another complication to teaching a crew that can largely be avoided. The only parts that are too far away are the turning engines, and only if they have broken or the hull is about to break. In those cases, the gunner without an arc can fix them, or even the pilot if there's no control anyways. I agree that the armor is especially important and that's why your advice applies more to yourself with your main engineer shooting stuff instead of repairing. And in the case that turning engines are broken it's your loadout that suffers crucial firepower loss because your top deck engineer is no longer on side guns. So your only killzone is the small arc where the front and bottom guns overlap and that's only when your main, hull engineer is firing.
Byron Cavendish:
--- Quote from: Kain Phalanx on January 30, 2015, 01:37:03 pm ---Yeah, see, I've never heard of anyone telling the main engineer to man the front gun. With a premade savvy crew I'm sure your strategy works but it's needlessly convoluted most of the time. Gunner gets front and top guns, buff engi downstairs, main engi on hull, balloon and turning engines with assistance from pilot.
--- End quote ---
Really? That's how most comp. crews of run their junkers for at least two years.
DJ Logicalia:
--- Quote from: Byron Cavendish on January 30, 2015, 04:35:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: Kain Phalanx on January 30, 2015, 01:37:03 pm ---Yeah, see, I've never heard of anyone telling the main engineer to man the front gun. With a premade savvy crew I'm sure your strategy works but it's needlessly convoluted most of the time. Gunner gets front and top guns, buff engi downstairs, main engi on hull, balloon and turning engines with assistance from pilot.
--- End quote ---
Really? That's how most comp. crews of run their junkers for at least two years.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, since the front gunner can hit the hull, it's very common to have an engi (I don't call it the "Main Engi" normally front engi or something).
Kain Phalanx:
--- Quote from: Byron Cavendish on January 30, 2015, 04:35:08 pm ---Really? That's how most comp. crews of run their junkers for at least two years.
--- End quote ---
I've been away for at least 2 years and I don't run with comp. crews, so yeah, really. I also don't believe it to be that good, but that's not necessarily my main complaint. The setup isn't intuitive and I see people mimicking aspects of it without giving any direction. Like I said, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing when I get on other people's Junkers because of this.
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