Suggestion: crew joining during matches

[BlackenedPies]

There is nothing more annoying than extra gunners or pilots joining during a match and refusing to leave. Why not restrict extra gunners and pilots during match but still let a ship start a match with all gunners if it so chooses?

The second most annoying thing is a crew member with an ineffective loadout joining mid match. Instead, why not display a message containing the crew's loadout and asking if you want them to join. The message will NOT display the crew's level or name which will prevent the captain from rejecting low level crew. The accept/reject commands should be simple and non intrusive like F4 and F5. The message timeout should be short (10-15 secs).

Or let us play with AI if we choose by letting captains lock crew spots when the match starts.

Or restrict novice players to novice games. This may fix a significant amount of the above problems.

[GurasOguras]

And what about low level stupid captains that will refuse to accept your loadout, even of you have good one? Well if ignore this, then idea with acceptation loadouts looks very good.

[BlackenedPies]

In my experience, most low level captains don't care about their crew loadouts and would prefer any crew over an AI. Notifying the captain of the loadout might teach them the importance of correct loadouts quicker and make them more perceptive about crew performance.

Contrary to common belief, the captain chooses crew loadouts not the crew. If a crew doesn't want to bring the captain's loadout then they can join a different ship. If a captain doesn't want a crew's loadout, then they shouldn't be forced to have it.

[Imagine]

This will go away when matchmaking system is brought to live.

[Spud Nick]

This will go away when matchmaking system is brought to live.

Than you can finally blame yourself for a loss instead of your crew or teammate.

[obliviondoll]

Contrary to common belief, the captain chooses crew loadouts not the crew. If a crew doesn't want to bring the captain's loadout then they can join a different ship. If a captain doesn't want a crew's loadout, then they shouldn't be forced to have it.

Contrary to your belief, this is blatantly and demonstrably false.

1. There is no mechanic to kick someone from your ship.
2. There is no mechanic allowing a captain to forcibly alter a crew member's loadout.
3. There IS a mechanic allowing individual players, whether captain or not, to alter their own loadouts freely.

If you get someone on your ship with a loadout you don't like, you have the right (and as a captain, the responsibility) to advise them of possible changes that would work better. As new players, it is their responsibility to listen and take a more experienced player's advice, but they have the right to ignore you and do whatever they want as well.

Public matches are still public. Open-level matches are open-level. Novice players have the right to join open matches, but should expect to get stomped into the ground if they don't learn REALLY fast. And novices who aren't learning should expect (and will recieve) a measure of ridicule appropriate to the level of failure they demonstrate.

If you don't like your crew's loadouts, ADVISE them of what you THINK they should be using. EXPLAIN WHY you want them to change. If you make a good case, a competent player will listen, and even most new players are smart enough to take advice when they're aware that they're new. People who don't listen, regardless of whether they're captain or crew, are failing to communicate properly.

If there's no room for flexibility on a ship's crew, and the captain is being a jerk to other crew members, I WILL make a point of supporting the crew's rights over the captain's authority, and I WILL make a point of changing to a loadout that ISN'T what the captain ordered (but I'll make sure it's something I can use effectively).

I listen to my crew when they advise me of things I could do to help. If I get a gunner on my Junker who sees that I have no Hades and asks for one because he's good with it, I'll consider reshuffling the weapons to suit. If I get an engineer who doesn't have any firefighting gear, I'll ask them to bring some, and I'll explain that having something to manage fire is a crucial part of the role. If they choose not to listen, then our ship burning and dying will be resting heavily on that engineer and I'll make a point of mentioning it every time a fire kills something they could have extinguished or saved with chemspray. If I decide to pull out my (very rare) Goldfish, I'll explain why I'm bringing the loadout I've chosen, and I'll listen to my gunner's advice on main gun, and my engineers' advice on what secondary guns to load. I won't necessarily take their advice, and I might point out why I think my way is better and not change, but I will listen.

If you can't listen to your crew and at least consider their opinions when they differ from your personal preferences, then you're doing it wrong.

[HamsterIV]

Sometimes no matter how much ADVISING, EXPLAINING, or in my case PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL a captain uses there will be players who refuse to cooperate. It is the captains job to set up the ship to have the best chance at victory. I have no respect for players who work against the captain in doing this. Even though there are no mechanics to directly punish a player for working against the captain and crew we are under no obligation to help that player learn the game. Move to a different ship, tell the lobby #player name# is not cooperating. Hopefully they will rage quit and you can take your ship back next game.

[BlackenedPies]

Crew are able to decide what loadouts they bring, but the captain is the only one who can start the match.
There is a correct ammo for a gun and circumstance which will be based on the pilot's tactics and the gunner's skill.
If my pilot tells me to bring an ammo that I don't think will be max effective, I will explain why, and if the pilot still wants me to bring it then I will bring it. Simple as that.
 
I often let the crew pick positions and I give them practice on important/difficult guns. I'm one of the few people who gives lumberjacks to players who have never used it before just to give them the experience. Sometimes I give options on the ship/loadout, but the problem I have is not with players who know what they are doing. My problem is with players who deliberately not take the correct loadout and give no explanation for why.

When a new crew member joins in lobby I have a pretty standard script that I use (usually in private msgs), and goes something like this (depending on their class and their current loadout):
hello _ please bring _ tools and _ ammo.
you will be _ position
_ ammo is for _. dont use _ ammo because
aim at their _
I wait for a response and if there is none,
if you dont want to bring those, please join a different ship.
If I don't get any response then I'll probably tell them that I'm not starting the match until they bring it.
If I'm doing something wrong, I don't know what it is.

For most guns I don't care much about the ammo, I'll start the match and tell them to use regular. The important part is the tools. I am very picky and I won't start start a match with a mallet gunner or ineffective buff loadout no matter what the enemy team is. It's my fault for being picky but they don't have to be on my ship.

Often, they are attempting to get achievements. If they say the need _ ammo then I might give them the appropriate gun. But if they want tool achievements they can join a different ship. A buff kit for engi is great, but only with a wrench (except on 3 engi builds). And I will only accept a gunner with a wrench. Again, they don't have to join my ship if they want to use a bad loadout. Simple as that.

For standard builds there are only 2 possible correct engineer loadout combinations (reg reg or reg buff). I'm very picky so I need them to be right (although I would never force someone to bring buffs). I will gladly educate any player and I regularly give suggestions to the enemy captains and crew. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. I love to teach people about the game.

I will stall a match from starting until either the insubordinate or I decide to leave. This can be very frustrating for everyone in the lobby. Every captain who cares about their loadout has run into this problem innumerable times before where a crew members refuses to bring the stuff or change class etc. It's a waste of time and I don't see how it can be prevented. Maybe I am doing something wrong but I'm not the only one who can't always convince their crew.

I guess my main point is the captains have some amount of control over loadouts in lobby but have none in match. If someone joins during the match with a bad loadout, 9.8 times out of 10 they will refuse to change it and rejoin. The only way to prevent this problem is to wait until you have a full crew in lobby. My suggestion for the accept/reject feature was only a suggestion. Of course it will not be implemented in GoI, but maybe it will in a future game.

But what is the point of allowing extra gunners or pilots to join during the match? Sometimes they listen and leave and switch class, but sometimes they decide to stay. A ship without at least 2 engineers is a death sentence. In my opinion, joining as an extra gunner/pilot and refusing to leave constitutes trolling. There's no point in allowing a second pilot or gunner to join, so why help facilitate trolling?

[obliviondoll]

When a new crew member joins in lobby I have a pretty standard script that I use (usually in private msgs), and goes something like this (depending on their class and their current loadout):
hello _ please bring _ tools and _ ammo.
you will be _ position
_ ammo is for _. dont use _ ammo because
aim at their _
I wait for a response and if there is none,
if you dont want to bring those, please join a different ship.
If I don't get any response then I'll probably tell them that I'm not starting the match until they bring it.
If I'm doing something wrong, I don't know what it is.

You don't know?

"if you dont want to bring those, please join a different ship."

This is a fair request. But it's a request, not an order with any authority.

"If I don't get any response then I'll probably tell them that I'm not starting the match until they bring it."

THIS is what you're doing wrong. You have one crew member who's causing a - probably minor - problem for you. Yes, you're the pilot and the captain, but you're also ONLY ONE CREW MEMBER. At this stage, with you being mildly annoyed, that's ONE player in the lobby who's annoyed. If you get over yourself, accept that there's only so much you can do to work around an uncommunicative player, and start, that's all the frustration the lobby will see. If you try and pressure someone - maybe someone who can't understand English, and has no clue what you're on about - and hold things up for half an hour or more, then people start leaving. Congratulations, YOU have annoyed EVERYONE. You're trying to spite someone when you don't know their reason for not answering or obeying you, and you're hurting the entire lobby. Instead of just one person being annoyed, it's now 16, 24, or maybe even 32 people who are annoyed.

Again, they don't have to join my ship if they want to use a bad loadout. Simple as that.

And THIS is what you're doing wrong. Request, and if the other person doesn't listen, DEAL WITH IT.

I will stall a match from starting until either the insubordinate or I decide to leave. This can be very frustrating for everyone in the lobby. Every captain who cares about their loadout has run into this problem innumerable times before where a crew members refuses to bring the stuff or change class etc. It's a waste of time and I don't see how it can be prevented. Maybe I am doing something wrong but I'm not the only one who can't always convince their crew.

THIS.
CAN.
BE.
VERY.
FRUSTRATING.
FOR.
EVERYONE.

You say you love teaching people about the game? You love playing too, clearly, or you wouldn't be as experienced as you are. You wouldn't be a high-level player in a well-respected clan. And you wouldn't be someone who I felt slightly guilty arguing with because I'm still a new guy here.

So, from that perspective of being a good fan, which would you prefer?

1. Everyone in the entire lobby (16 - 32 players) gets angry because in almost every match, there's one or two captains who need EVERYTHING to be PERFECT because it's THEIR ship and therefore THEIR loadouts for everyone. The match never starts until someone leaves - either the captain or their "insubordinate" who's there to have fun. They aren't there to try and ruin the game for you. They just want to PLAY.

2. One, maybe two captains get a little annoyed at not having their ship set up PERFECTLY the way they want it to be. They get some idiot who brings a spanner, mallet and buff hammer and rages when the fire extinguisher user decided to manage fires and repairs on other parts while they wait for the cooldown to end, then when they get back, the idiot with no firefighting gear has put the hull on cooldown again, so they run off to fix what they CAN fix in the meantime, rinse, repeat, and somehow it's "not my fault".

Yeah, it can be annoying when you're the one stuck dealing with THAT GUY (or girl). The above example actually happened to me the other day. But to be perfectly fair, it's you and people like you causing the "Lobbies of Icarus" problem. There are people who need their crew to do things how THEY want, and no other way. I've seen captains who have demanded things that make no sense. I've seen one captain who demanded burst rounds on an engineer who was only going to have gatling guns in reach. You say he has the right to hold up a match starting because is crew refuse to listen? I say he shouldn't have that right for the same reason you shouldn't. And it's nothing to do with either of you being wrong about what's best for your crew.

I actually think that crew members should be able to ready up independent of their captain, and if everyone on a ship except the captain is ready, that should mark the ship as ready as if the captain was ok with things. If your crew just want the game to start and not have a lobby to sit around in for ages, and you can't deal with that, YOU can leave. One person inconvenienced is better than 15+ who just want to get into a battle in the sky.

For competitive matches, or when you're running with friends who are happy with how you do things, great. Have all the control you want. You'll get well-reasoned discussions when you propose a change to someone's loadout and they disagree. You might learn something from letting a teammate do something different from your usual. You might teach them something instead. For public matches with crew you don't know, stop refusing to play and start playing. You'll get more time in-game, you'll see more crazy and random things, and you might sometimes have just as much fun as you do when things go smoothly.

I've been in a match where one of the captains spent half his time running around the ship loading lochnagar rounds into all the flamethrowers, and telling the crew to use the lochangar instead of switching ammo. Every time they disobeyed, he left the helm with the ship at full throttle, and took over their gun to switch back. It was a Squid, so leaving the ship at full throttle was a crazy move. At the end of the match, everyone was asking the captain to never do that again, but his whole crew - AND their friendly ship - were laughing. It wasn't just crazy, it was flat-out stupid. But it was still something everyone had fun with.

You're playing a game.
Games are about fun.

Sometimes, I think people forget that. When you're not with your friends, sure, go ahead, teach people and give them advice. But if they don't listen, DEAL WITH IT. Get out into the friendly skies, laugh when your flamethrower gets blown up firing a lochnagar shot. HAVE FUN.

Being entirely serious here, I'm worried about the plan to use "matchmaking" (details unspecified) in place of the current lobby system. They've implied that lobbies are going away somehow, and I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing, but that's a story for another thread.

[Imagine]

Once again:

This will go away when matchmaking system is brought to live.

[BlackenedPies]

Captains have the right to an effective loadout. Crew have the right to choose their captain. Conflict occurs when interests collide. This causes inefficiency.

I will support any captain's decision to not start the game until they have the right loadout. It's a courtesy to not ready up until everyone is ready, and I would never force an opponent to start with the wrong loadout no matter how long it took. I believe that it's irresponsible to let a player refuse to bring the captain's loadout, and unfortunately this can lead to Lobbies of Icarus.
If a crew member on the other side is making everyone wait for them, it would be ridiculous to blame the captain for not starting the match. I wholeheartedly support their decision and I would expect the other captains to do too. The crew member is making the lobby wait- not the captain.

I believe that not giving in to a crew's bad loadout is the right thing to do. I'll use match chat and say that I'm waiting on _ and for them to please hurry up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Fighting stubbornness with stubbornness is pretty ineffective, but I don't know what the alternative is. This is a team game and if a crew doesn't want to be a team player then they shouldn't be on the ship, and there are plenty of others who want to play as a team. The fun/success of the team outweighs the desire of the individual.

Allowing crew to ready up would be a disaster to all captains. It would allow a crew to bring any loadout, and to be all gunners if they chose to. Regardless of the mechanics or how the system works, the captain chooses the loadout of their ship. The crew can have input, but in the end it is up to the captain. The game is a mess when crew decide their loadouts, and I would argue that everyone on the ship has more fun when the crew has the right loadout. A system that doesn't allow the captain to choose loadouts is a broken system.

The classic example is the hwatcha gunner. All hwatcha gunners bring heavy clip and burst, and if the gunner refuses to bring both then they shouldn't be shooting a hwatcha. It would be extremely inconsiderate to force the captain to start with the wrong ammo. It would be wrong to force the gunner to bring the right ammo, but it would be wrong to force the captain to have the wrong ammo.
I would argue that the captain's need to have the right ammo supersedes the gunner's ability to bring the wrong ammo. The captain has the choice of the build and it's the crews' job to crew it effectively. The gunner accommodates the captain not the other way around. If they don't like it then they don't have to be on the ship. GoI is a team game.

Crew have the liberty of choosing their captain but not the other way around. By refusing to cooperate they are wasting everyone's time. The captain shouldn't have to leave because of a detrimental crew member. Having a bad loadout, or 2 gunners, or an extra pilot can be a death sentence, and I believe that it's the captain's right to prevent that. Every captain has the right to an effective loadout. Crew members have the right to choose their captain. There are plenty of players who want to be a team, and there are some who don't.

Generally when a captain gives a loadout it's because they know it will be effective, and rarely do captains give ineffective loadouts. If a captain wanted me to bring a bad loadout and I wanted to bring the right loadout, I probably wouldn't stick around. If the captain consistently hears that his loadout should be _, maybe eventually he will take the advice. GoI is about fun and learning.

There sometimes is the problem that the crew member doesn't speak English, but most are able to explain that they don't speak english and that they speak _. In this case I will go to google translate, and ask the lobby/global if anyone speaks the language. I rarely run into this problem. Most of the time I'm dealing with names that imply they speak english.

Regardless of how the system works, the captain chooses loadouts. If a crew wants to bring what they want, then they should find a captain who will let them bring it. A captain should never be forced to have a bad loadout (ex 2 gunners). I'm picky and stubborn and don't mix well with players that don't cooperate. This leads to inefficiency and universal frustration. The system is broken, and if matchmaking is the fix, then I hope it arrives quickly.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Too many triple or quadruple gunner spires = urge to kill...rising...

Seen that a few times recently. Sad. Poor guy started with AI to get the match going then within 2 mins he had 3 gunners join on him. Died once, rage quit. When its that bad, I just refuse to engage till they leave.

[obliviondoll]

Captains have the right to an effective loadout. Crew have the right to choose their captain. Conflict occurs when interests collide. This causes inefficiency.

Captains choose an effective loadout for the SHIP, and for THEMSELVES. Captains have the right to ADVISE their crew on complementary loadouts. In competitive matches, competent crew will work with the captain. In random public matches, they don't always do so.

And as to crew having the right to choose their captain, what happens when you have a 2 vs. 2 lobby with 3 premade crews? How exactly are the crew supposed to choose their captain? They have one option.

I will support any captain's decision to not start the game until they have the right loadout. It's a courtesy to not ready up until everyone is ready, and I would never force an opponent to start with the wrong loadout no matter how long it took. I believe that it's irresponsible to let a player refuse to bring the captain's loadout, and unfortunately this can lead to Lobbies of Icarus.

ANY captain? Any at all? What if you've got a squid with 3 gatling guns and their captain's "right" loadout is 3 engineers with lochnagar rounds, spanner, mallet and buff hammer? Will you support their right to be a jerk to their crew? It's the captain's right to do that though, yeah? You're ok with that?

I agree that the captain has the right to REQUEST changes, as I've said. If everyone on the crew can tell that the captain's advice is insane, and decides not to play along, they should have that right. If even one person on the ship agrees with the captain, nothing would change and they still have to wait.

If a crew member on the other side is making everyone wait for them, it would be ridiculous to blame the captain for not starting the match. I wholeheartedly support their decision and I would expect the other captains to do too. The crew member is making the lobby wait- not the captain.

If a crew member is UNABLE to communicate and DOESN'T KNOW why the match isn't starting, you can't necessarily blame them for being silent. If a crew member has explained themselves clearly and made valid points against the captain's suggested loadout, and the captain's argument is "but I'm the captain and I want you to do it, I don't care if your way is better", then I'd blame the captain. If the crew are telling the captain why they have their loadouts, and the captain isn't explaining why they should change, then they aren't the ones holding the game up. The guy who is refusing to click "ready" is holding the game up.

I believe that not giving in to a crew's bad loadout is the right thing to do. I'll use match chat and say that I'm waiting on _ and for them to please hurry up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Fighting stubbornness with stubbornness is pretty ineffective, but I don't know what the alternative is. This is a team game and if a crew doesn't want to be a team player then they shouldn't be on the ship, and there are plenty of others who want to play as a team. The fun/success of the team outweighs the desire of the individual.

If I was on your crew, and someone disagreed - with good reason - with your proposed loadout, I'd expect you to at least provide some semblance of an explanation for why you want an alternative. I agree that captains have some authority over their crew. But they don't have 100% control, or they would have 100% control.

Allowing crew to ready up would be a disaster to all captains. It would allow a crew to bring any loadout, and to be all gunners if they chose to. Regardless of the mechanics or how the system works, the captain chooses the loadout of their ship. The crew can have input, but in the end it is up to the captain. The game is a mess when crew decide their loadouts, and I would argue that everyone on the ship has more fun when the crew has the right loadout. A system that doesn't allow the captain to choose loadouts is a broken system.

Requiring ALL the crew to ready up before it counts would negate your argument in almost every case. If ONE crew member agrees with the captain's request, the remaining 2 can't ready the ship up on their own. If the ship has a single AI slot open, the captain still has final say because there aren't 3 crew members available to ready up and force the captain's hand.

The classic example is the hwatcha gunner. All hwatcha gunners bring heavy clip and burst, and if the gunner refuses to bring both then they shouldn't be shooting a hwatcha. It would be extremely inconsiderate to force the captain to start with the wrong ammo. It would be wrong to force the gunner to bring the right ammo, but it would be wrong to force the captain to have the wrong ammo.
I would argue that the captain's need to have the right ammo supersedes the gunner's ability to bring the wrong ammo. The captain has the choice of the build and it's the crews' job to crew it effectively. The gunner accommodates the captain not the other way around. If they don't like it then they don't have to be on the ship. GoI is a team game.

And in that example, most players - myself included - will agree with a captain asking for Heavy/Burst, and will refuse to ready up when a guy with greased/lochnagar/lesmok is saying "No, I want to use these ammo types, ready up so we can play". Don't just work from the grounds of "I'm captain, what I say goes", SUPPORT your case, and your crew will support you. Crews have to work with their captains, and captains have to work with their crews. One uncooperative crew member doesn't get the option to ready up the ship. An entire crew disagreeing with their captain does.

From the sound of things, you're doing it right in-game for the most part. I disagree agree with how you presented your case in the beginning here, but I don't disagree with everything you're saying. I think the captain is the only person on a ship who should have the ability to ready the ship up ALONE. A single crew member saying "no, I want THIS loadout" is going to be held up by the captain AND the rest of the crew refusing to ready up. A pair of gunners who both refuse to swap roles will be held up by the captain AND the lone engineer who doesn't want to be alone. In many cases, the two gunners will both want to be the only gunner, so they won't ready up until one or the other backs down anyway.

Crew have the liberty of choosing their captain but not the other way around. By refusing to cooperate they are wasting everyone's time. The captain shouldn't have to leave because of a detrimental crew member. Having a bad loadout, or 2 gunners, or an extra pilot can be a death sentence, and I believe that it's the captain's right to prevent that. Every captain has the right to an effective loadout. Crew members have the right to choose their captain. There are plenty of players who want to be a team, and there are some who don't.

It's the captain's responsibility to TRY and prevent that. It isn't always possible. In those cases, it's the captain's responsibility to make the best of what they have. The captain has the right to request changes, and the right to delay things (to a lesser extent once matchmaking is in place, apparently) when the crew don't listen. They don't have the right to dictate everything about their crew's choices every step of the way.

Generally when a captain gives a loadout it's because they know it will be effective, and rarely do captains give ineffective loadouts. If a captain wanted me to bring a bad loadout and I wanted to bring the right loadout, I probably wouldn't stick around. If the captain consistently hears that his loadout should be _, maybe eventually he will take the advice. GoI is about fun and learning.

Generally when a competent captain gives a loadout, and a crew member disagrees, the captain will explain WHY they want the loadout they do. If they don't do that, nobody is learning anything. When a competent crew member disagrees with the captain's suggested loadout, they're going to explain why they don't want to take the loadout being suggested. If the captain doesn't give them a valid counter-point to their reasoning, they have the right to not listen.

There sometimes is the problem that the crew member doesn't speak English, but most are able to explain that they don't speak english and that they speak _. In this case I will go to google translate, and ask the lobby/global if anyone speaks the language. I rarely run into this problem. Most of the time I'm dealing with names that imply they speak english.

Some people are uncommunicative for various reasons. Sometimes it's partly due to the language barrier. And sometimes, google translate doesn't help because the translations make no real sense. Have you seen the mess you get when you translate back and forth between English and Japanese on that site? It's actually pretty funny sometimes.

Regardless of how the system works, the captain chooses loadouts. If a crew wants to bring what they want, then they should find a captain who will let them bring it. A captain should never be forced to have a bad loadout (ex 2 gunners). I'm picky and stubborn and don't mix well with players that don't cooperate. This leads to inefficiency and universal frustration. The system is broken, and if matchmaking is the fix, then I hope it arrives quickly.

So you're saying that no matter how the game is made, including the fact that the captain literally doesn't choose loadouts, the captain chooses loadouts.

Cool story.

Matchmaking will be fixing the problem of mid-match joining, because that won't be happening with the matchmaking system. I'm not sure what that means for matches in progress when a captain leaves. It won't miraculously give captains more control over the loadouts for their crew. In some ways, what I've heard makes it sound like you'll be given less of an ability to stall things.

[Richard LeMoon]

Matchmaking will solve nothing as far as wrong loadouts. Once it comes out, if someone refuses to change, I will just leave the lobby. Having nothing invested in getting into a lobby makes it easy to quit.

[BlackenedPies]

There may be cases when a captain is requesting a ridiculous loadout, but again his crew don't have to join. In that case he has 2 options: to wait for someone who will take his loadout, or to start with AI. The first option will piss off the lobby (and he might be trolling). This is a special case but not the issue here. I have never run into a problem where a captain is not starting the match because he is waiting on a bad loadout. If a crew disagree with a loadout and refuse to take it then they should leave. Simple as that. If they want to be stubborn and stick around then they're delaying the match. This may be a minority of the cases but I have never run into it.

Whether or not the request is reasonable, the captain has the right to stall the match. If the captain has an unreasonable request then the lobby should be mad, and the captain might be trolling. Again, I don't run into this problem. Captains generally make reasonable requests so that people will follow them. If they make unreasonable requests then crew are less likely to follow them.

I have run into players not understanding english 4 times that I know of: French Polish and Russian. Google translate works if you're translating words or phrases, and global chat speaks many languages. This is a special case and it's not the problem.

Let's focus on the vast majority of the cases: players who refuse to cooperate or give explanation. Players who don't cooperate and prefer to frustrate people and waste time are trolls. Not readying is the only defense captains have against them because there is no kick feature and the report abuse button doesnt work. I am glad to see captains refuse to ready because of a troll on their crew, and it would be extremely rude to attempt to start the match.

All experienced players understand this, and I have sat in plenty of lobbies for extended periods just waiting on someone's crew member. Not starting is the right thing to do because otherwise you are giving in to trolling. A captain cannot be expected to ready up with a bad loadout in the same way that they can't be expected to ready with 2 gunners or an extra pilot. Having a bad loadout is often as detrimental as having an extra gunner.

I'm not trying to argue about special cases. I'm discussing the vast majority of cases that I see every day.

If I join a ship with a bad loadout or as an extra pilot/gunner and the pilot wants me to switch and I refuse, then I am trolling. If the pilot refuses to start the match with me then he is being responsible. A captain has the right, ability, and responsibility to not start the match with a troll in his crew.

If a captain makes a reasonable request, you should either cooperate or leave. This should be a universal rule. If you don't cooperate, then expect the captain to stall the match. Congratulations, you are now trolling.

I'm not saying that the captain has control over his loadouts, but the community agrees that the captain chooses loadouts. Allowing crew to ready up would be a disaster and ruin the experience. The community would not endorse it. Crews don't get to choose what captain they want, but they can leave a ship if they are not happy with it.


"Sometimes no matter how much ADVISING, EXPLAINING, or in my case PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL a captain uses there will be players who refuse to cooperate. It is the captains job to set up the ship to have the best chance at victory. I have no respect for players who work against the captain in doing this. Even though there are no mechanics to directly punish a player for working against the captain and crew we are under no obligation to help that player learn the game. Move to a different ship, tell the lobby #player name# is not cooperating. Hopefully they will rage quit and you can take your ship back next game."
-HamsterIV

He is describing trolling, and that's what I'm trying to discuss.