Author Topic: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship  (Read 6738 times)

Offline Roderick Archer

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If you're an Engineer, more often than not, you've been caught in a situation where you're either thinking

"Wow, this Engineer I'm working with is great! We're working so well together!"

or

"GOD DAMNIT ALL, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?"

A pair of well coordinated, synchronized Engineers can make a ship dangerous. The opposite can be said about Engineers who somehow start to work against each other.

So, I'm going to write a little guide that fellow Engineers should look at to ensure that everything goes smoothly.

Part 1: Coordination

That's the key word when working with another Engineer and the first part of this guide.

Let me transcribe something that happened to me with another Engineer to show you just how a lack of coordination can cost you the game.

"Alright, it's 4 to 4, we're getting hammered pretty hard...The hull is bad but as long as I can keep wacking on it with my spanner, we might just win thi-Wait... Why are you running up with that rubber malletWAITDON'T!"

I was a little pissed when that happened because the repair cooldown meant I couldn't keep spannering it and immediately afterwards, the hull's armor went and the game was over. When I brought it up to him, asking him why he did that, all I got was a "I dunno. It seemed like a good idea."

A little communication would have helped in that situation, but oh well. The past is the past and the future is bright.

Had I said "I've got the hull" or had he asked "Do you need help?" would have made that game go in a completely different direction. So you're probably asking "Roderick, how do I get coordinated with my fellow Engineer?". Or at least that's what I'd like to be asked, but anyway, the easiest way to get coordinated it just to talk to them. Say something. "Hi" or "Hello" is a good starting point, followed by "What's your loadout?" and "Where do you wanna be?". Just this is enough to get you two coordinated enough to make the pilot smile as he flies through the broken remains of an enemy ship.

But let's take it a step farther. If you're like me (funny, clever, and secretly dead inside), then you've probably got a few friends and if you're also like me, you've probably introduced them to Guns of Icarus and have played it with them. Well, there's no better source of coordination and teamwork then friendship and working with someone you're familiar with. So if you've got a good buddy you like to play with and they are also an Engineer, get on the voice chat for GoI or use your favorite voice chat program like Mumble, Team Speak, Dolby Axon, or even Skype. Verbally communicating with your Engineer buddy will make coordination so much easier. And once you really start to sync up, you start complimenting eachother's play styles by picking out the right tools for the right job.

Part 2: Loadout

Three slots, three tools, many options. Once you and your Engineer Buddy have synced up, you will find yourself asking what tools you should be packing. Now, there are many, many different combinations and roles that Engineers can fill, but I won't go over them all. Just the two that I've had work well for me.

Fix, Buff, Douse:
With this duo, you really need to coordinate with your fellow Engineer because one of you won't be packing anything to put out fires.

Engineer 1: This Engineer is the Fix and Buff part, meant to be the one who's keeping the whole ship together.
Loadout: Shifting Spanner, Pipe Wrench, Dynabuff Industries Kit

Engineer 2: This Engineer is the Douse part and is meant to be the ship's fire extinguisher.
Loadout: Whatever two repair tools they are comfortable with and the Chemical Spray (I honestly think the Chemical Spray is better than the fire extinguisher, but in the end, it's your personal preference)

Explanation: Alright now, it seems risky for an Engineer to not have a fire suppression tool on them, but here's my logic: Engineer 1 is the ship's main fixer, able to bring back any destroyed part quickly with the shifting spanner and repair it with the Pipe Wrench. This build also allows for pre and post battle buffing. But it's up to Engineer 2 to jump at a moment's notice the minute a fire starts up. The best way to utilize this is with a tag team system. Say both Engineers are on a Galleon. Engineer 1 is on the top deck and Engineer 2 is on the lower deck with the guns. A fire breaks out on the hull.

"Tag in!"

Engineer 1 and 2 switch places. Engineer 2 puts out the fire and any others that broke out while Engineer 2 buffs the guns and jumps on with the Gunner before tagging out again.

You really need to be in sync with your fellow Engineer for this to work, but I've personally had this work wonders.

The Fix-Its
These Two Engineers help keep the entire ship in repair while also fully buffed.

Engineer 1: This Engineer is the Fixer. He/She's meant to get parts back up in running order as quickly as possible.
Loadout: Shifting Spanner, Dynabuff Industries Kit, Chemical Spray (See previous discussion)

Engineer 2: This Engineer is the Repairman/woman. He/she's there to get parts back up to full health.
Loadout: Pipe Wrench (Rubber Mallet could work, but you'd have to time it right with your teammate) Dynabuff Industries Kit, Chemical Spray.

Explanation: Alright, this one is a bit tricky and again, requires teamwork. Engineer 1 is meant to repair any disable parts, giving Engineer 2 the chance to bring it's health back up. Running back and forth is going to be happening a lot, but there's this undercurrent that you find where one is waiting for the other and starts to buff and they just sort of meet in the middle, keeping the whole ship together and buffed as one finishes a job, another starts, and they buff inbetween.

Just like in my last guide, I'm going to encourage you to experiment. Talk it out with your Engineer Buddy and experiment as to what works for both of you. There's only one last part to this guide now...

Part 3: Blame

NEVER BLAME A FELLOW ENGINEER FOR A LOSS.

That's the easiest way to ruin a friendship and break the buddy system. The moment you rest the blame solely on the actions of one person is when you start losing sight of what a "game" is meant to be.

From there, all I can say is to have fun. And who knows, that Engineer you're working with might turn into a good friend if you just start out and say "Hi".

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 02:24:26 pm »
Most of this tutorial is great, having two well coordinated engineers can keep a ship in the fight much longer than two competent engineers working independently. I do have a problem with the spanner/mallet/buffkit suggestion.

I know some people who see the spanner/mallet/buffkit as the new meta, but I really don't like it. The combo works well in low pressure situations, but then again two gunners works well in low pressure situations. When the crap hits the fan both engineers need to be able to put out fires as well as repair/rebuild at maximum efficiency. There will be no time to buff in crap fan mode so when the captain needs engineers the most one will be a tool down. Maybe if the gunner took extinguisher this might work out better, but that requires even higher levels of coordination.

Buffkit engineer I think are best for ships without a gungineer spot or for the third engineer on the squid. Taking a buffkit instead of an extinguisher on a ship with a gungineer roll causes the rate of fire to drop or the hull to get abandoned mid fight when a fire breaks out. Also a gungineer can't buff and shoot very effectively unless they know down to the millisecond how long their reload cycle takes. I been unpleasantly surprised a couple of times when I ask an engineer to put out a fire only to find they took a buff kit instead of an extinguisher.

Offline Roderick Archer

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 02:37:27 pm »
Uhh, Spanner-Mallet-Buffkit? I'm a little confused. I don't think I mentioned that o.0

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 02:57:55 pm »
Oh wow I just went on a tirade about some thing I thought I read, instead of what was actually written. A couple of my friends are saying Spanner/Mallet/Buff is the new meta since flames got nerfed in the last patch. Then flailed helplessly as the ship burned down around their ears. I have been looking for a place to vent my frustration and got carried away when you brought up an alternate engineer build.

You have my apologies. I will ask a CA to delete my posts after I am sure you have read this.

Offline Roderick Archer

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 03:04:22 pm »
Hey man, no biggie. I can understand your frustration. No need to delete your posts. Maybe it'll serve as a cautionary tale to people reading this guide about how the Spanner, Mallet, Buff is ridiculous loadout. :P

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 04:19:08 pm »
Mallet/spanner/buff a ridiculous loadout? Not in the slightest. Flames have become uncommon enough for it to work perfectly a lot of the time. You definitely need somebody keeping the flames at bay, so it works best when you have three engineers (works on the Squid, Pyra, and Junker). Two engineers is more than enough to deal with flames, so the third one can take a buff kit without being negatively affected. The engineer might not get to buff all the time, but they'll have the chance to at the start of the match, in between confrontations, and during gun reloads (if they're gungineering).

So no, it isn't ridiculous.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 05:18:34 pm »
Going Mallet/spanner/buff puts a lot of responsibility on the other engineer for the standard 2engie/1gunner crews that are most common. I don't like buff engineers because they are less useful when things start going crazy. Having a buff engineer replace the gunner would be ok except they would need to jump off their gun to buff it. With enough coordination this might work, but I would rather stick with the bread and butter crew types.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 05:22:53 pm »
It's true that it requires more coordination, and that's why it's more of a strategy for tournament play, or just matches with experienced players in general  (Smollett likes to use it on his Pyra and Squid). And getting off the gun to buff is fine if it's done during reloads. It works especially well when you're shooting a hwacha or something like that.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 05:32:18 pm »
These loadouts require a LOT of crisscrossing which is lost time, so there needs to be a huge benefit to compensate.  Why is the pipe wrench being used with the spanner?  Surely the slightly shorter cooldown isn't worth the extra time it'll take to bring something back to full health?  If you're worried about cooldown, wouldn't whacking with the spanner be a better idea?

The basic buffing combo I see is Mallet/Spanner/Chemspray and Pipe Wrench/Buffhammer/Chemspray OR Mallet/Spanner/Buffhammer.  The engineers don't need to run from one end of the ship to another except in circumstances where one part NEEDS to go up now, so there's less time wasted in transit.  If the buff engineer is sacrificing an extinguisher, the main should probably go regular extinguisher just so he can run around and put out fires quickly.

How are your suggested loadouts (specifically the one that has a pipe wrench with a spanner) better than the widely used setup?  That pipe wrench is just driving me nuts.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 05:44:09 pm »
I have to agree with Helmic on the wrench. The mallet is much better as a repair tool. Think of it this way: the engines and guns will go up to nearly full health with one hit of the mallet. The hull will benefit more from getting more repairs at a time. Even if you're camping it, the mallet is actually more efficient than the wrench. Same goes when you're on the balloon. The only place where wrench/spanner/whatever works is when you're the hull engineer on the Squid, since that'll get repaired more or less entirely by one hit from the wrench.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 02:57:36 am »
As a Junker captain, the idea of an engineer on my ship not having an extinguisher is completely terrifying. The lost time putting out fires ranging from the thrust engine to the balloon seems quite stressful.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 07:31:45 am »
As a Junker captain, the idea of an engineer on my ship not having an extinguisher is completely terrifying. The lost time putting out fires ranging from the thrust engine to the balloon seems quite stressful.

That's why it's meant for when there are three engineers.

Offline Roderick Archer

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 07:57:25 am »
These loadouts require a LOT of crisscrossing which is lost time, so there needs to be a huge benefit to compensate.  Why is the pipe wrench being used with the spanner?  Surely the slightly shorter cooldown isn't worth the extra time it'll take to bring something back to full health?  If you're worried about cooldown, wouldn't whacking with the spanner be a better idea?

The basic buffing combo I see is Mallet/Spanner/Chemspray and Pipe Wrench/Buffhammer/Chemspray OR Mallet/Spanner/Buffhammer.  The engineers don't need to run from one end of the ship to another except in circumstances where one part NEEDS to go up now, so there's less time wasted in transit.  If the buff engineer is sacrificing an extinguisher, the main should probably go regular extinguisher just so he can run around and put out fires quickly.

How are your suggested loadouts (specifically the one that has a pipe wrench with a spanner) better than the widely used setup?  That pipe wrench is just driving me nuts.

Okay, I concede that Mallet/Spanner works better than Pipewrench/Spanner, but to me and from my experience, the Mallet just isn't the right tool for me and I've seen way too many games lost from just one hit of the Mallet on a key component I was keeping in a state of limbo between junked and unjunked using the Pipe Wrench or the Spanner. To me, the Mallet is better used just right before or right after a battle when you have some time to prepare, not during. It's damn near infuriating when I'm nursing a component with a spanner or wrench and I have someone run up with a Mallet and say something along the lines of "It's more HP in the long run!" only to have the component wrecked in just one shot, while I was managing to keep the entire thing up without it.

And I know these loadouts may look weird, but I wouldn't have put them here if I didn't think that they had some merit to them.

Offline Helmic

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 06:09:05 pm »
Using the spanner means you're babysitting a part that doesn't have enough HP lost to merit a mallet strike; you can start repairing immediately after a part breaks, the repair cooldown has no effect on rebuild.  If a part is teetering between functional and broken, that's the best time for a mallet, it frontloads that HP instead of making you babysit there to get something that's less HP overall, even giving you a cooldown that's long enough to repair another part if you notice the enemy's armor-stripping weapons can't fire.  You're getting 250 HP NOW, instead of waiting eight seconds (4 spanner whacks) for 160 HP.  Same amount of time spent on cooldown, nearly 50% more HP.  It doesn't even require babysitting, you can go repair multiple components while you're at it and drastically reduce the strain on your partner for a significant increase in overall HP gain throughout the ship.  It makes no sense to not frontload that HP gain, that's extra time the hull isn't going to be down and taking direct damage.

The spanner DOES become useful if the component is missing less than 40 HP; you're repairing the same amount but getting a 2 second cooldown instead of 9 so you can switch back to the mallet sooner if it suddenly takes a lot of burst damage.  If the component is missing less than 160 HP, it becomes feasible to spanner camp it as you described, you can sacrifice your ability to repair several components (DRASTICALLY increasing the workload of everyone else if other parts are taking damage) in order to keep this one component in tip-top shape and ready to be malleted in two seconds or less after the enemy volley.  THAT'S the only situations I can think of where someone hitting a working hull with a mallet could cause everyone to die, the hull didn't need that much HP and the 9 second cooldown that follows keeps it from being malleted when it DOES need the HP.

Now, I've had situations where someone whacked the hull with a SPANNER and cause us all to die, someone comes along to help rebuild and makes that precious first whack a spanner hit instead of a mallet, so the armor instantly goes down again and we all explode in a glorious combination of swears and and extraneous gears.  Switching tools is instant (or near instant, it's possible there's a delay that I haven't conciously noted yet) so unless you start your whack animation KNOWING that the hull's going to be down by the time it lands you're letting the hull take extra direct damage by not blocking more of the shots with armor.  You can, however, whack a broken component with a mallet when you know it's the last strike needed to fix it to ensure that you don't accidentally spanner the repaired hull if an ally suddenly helps rebuilds.

Where are you getting this idea that your teammate is not helping you by whacking a near-death component with a mallet, or that your spanner is managing to provide more uptime or less direct hull damage when it's constantly near death?  Are you talking about a Squid or Spire, with notoriously fragile hulls?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 06:14:45 pm by Helmic »

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Engineer Teamwork: An Effective Guide to a Loving Relationship
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 07:02:27 pm »
so the armor instantly goes down again and we all explode in a glorious combination of swears and and extraneous gears.

If you don't add this to the Quotes page I will.