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Control the lobbies

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Dutch Vanya:

--- Quote from: Gilder Unfettered on July 04, 2014, 04:56:38 pm ---Grey, with all due respect, I've seen moderators sit by and do nothing while players and teams either troll or violate the rules. I've also known CAs who quit because they have no real power. They have to sit there, be nice, and have no recompense as players tear into them. If their powers are less than that of a regular player then there is something seriously wrong. Heck, mall cops have more power than they do if someone misbehaves. All CAs can do is put on a happy face, file a CA report, then walk away leaving the offender to continue their abuse.

What is the point of CAs/Mods if a kick is implemented? Simple, to handle situations which requires more than a simple kick. Kicks can only solve a problem for the moment but what if an offender takes it beyond that and either stalks or trolls people numerous times? That is when a CA steps in with a match ban, preventing them from returning to the same match. Or when a CA mod steps in and just bans them from the game.

The argument that they have no reason for existing if a kick is added is flawed. In fact for the last year kick ability is probably the #1 request in game that I've run across. CAs can't be everywhere, they can't police all the lobbies. Heck they aren't even getting paid to take the level of abuse they take from the community.

Muse needs to say enough is enough and add the feature already. At one time I agreed, it would be probably abused/etc. But after a year of putting up with these people...the price of that abuse has come at the price of losing a lot of good players who just want to enjoy the game, not be trolled.

--- End quote ---
Someone make a kicking and blocking simulator for gilder. That seems like the perfect game for him.

obliviondoll:
As some of you know already, I'm a new player, but I'm enjoying the game and the community.

That said, filter my impressions through the understanding that I haven't been around as long as the veterans, and haven't seen everything that some of you guys have been through.

I haven't seen enough abusive or problematic players to think a change is even remotely in order. I've been in a few non-novice lobbies as well as plenty of novice ones, and there has only been one player who I've felt was a problem for the game. One bad encounter in about 5 hours of time in battle and more than 30 hours signed into the game and following chat logs.

That one encounter was a person who, for some reason, took offense to me advising another new person about his role as an Engineer. He had asked a question, and I was responding with the best answer I could give. I'm only a level 2 Engineer, but nobody else was higher, and I've got a few hours under my belt already, while this was the aftermath of the new guy's first attempt in the role. I was called an offensive name and asked to be quiet in an impolite manner, but I simply continued my explanation without letting it upset me.

When the verbal insult was ignored, the player - who happened to be a Captain - changed the name of his ship to something about my mother. I laughed, and complimented him on an interesting ship name. His shipmates swapped to other ships and one even moved to the spectator position instead of fighting alongside him. His team still beat the team I was on, and I said "gg well played" because both he and the opposing crew performed well. He said a few insulting things in text chat, no longer bothering with voice, but nobody acknowledged anything he said. In the next match, he had a crew again, people who joined presumably without knowing or questioning what was going on. The fight itself was amazing, neck-and-neck, with both teams hovering at 2 kills for a while before we finally got a kill, and both our ships were vulnerable enough to go down before we could repair, taking them to a 4-3 lead. Our team eventually won out, but it was REALLY close. After-match text chat was full of "SO close!" "GG" "THAT. WAS. AWESOME!" "G ****in' G!" Everyone was pumped, but two typists were conspicuously silent right up until my "nicely played everyone! That was intense!" was followed immediately by "**** off" from you-know-who.

After that match, someone said "that [******] guy's a downer, I'm switching rooms" and everyone else quit the lobby within seconds.

If he keeps playing with that attitude, he'll keep getting the same reactions until he realises the lack of counter-rage is boring. If he gets any worse, there will be CA reports about him - if there haven't been already. I won't say that a vote-kick option can't work, but I think the potential for abuse far outweighs the (lack of) need for these tools in such an open and friendly community.

GreyTea:

--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on July 04, 2014, 05:02:43 pm ---Someone make a kicking and blocking simulator for gilder. That seems like the perfect game for him.

--- End quote ---

He is well entitled to his opinion, and justified in the request, am pretty sure you were joking but had to say regardless.

In response, i know we are looking at the CA role and have increased number of mods in game now, perhaps making it more visual will help, we have a skype group with a large number of CA/Mods and devs in so we can respond quicker, obviously might not be quick enough. I have asked the question if we can do more, and tweak things see what we can do. obviously there are other points of concern and focus right now in development, But this has been an issue for a while, i can not promise anything perhaps more mods well make a difference,

Milevan Faent:

--- Quote from: Grey T on July 05, 2014, 06:05:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on July 04, 2014, 05:02:43 pm ---Someone make a kicking and blocking simulator for gilder. That seems like the perfect game for him.

--- End quote ---

He is well entitled to his opinion, and justified in the request, am pretty sure you were joking but had to say regardless.

In response, i know we are looking at the CA role and have increased number of mods in game now, perhaps making it more visual will help, we have a skype group with a large number of CA/Mods and devs in so we can respond quicker, obviously might not be quick enough. I have asked the question if we can do more, and tweak things see what we can do. obviously there are other points of concern and focus right now in development, But this has been an issue for a while, i can not promise anything perhaps more mods well make a difference,

--- End quote ---

The best way to make a difference is to make it easier to get in touch with mods/CAs. Really that's all we need, though more of them is certainly not out of the question either.

Nietzsche's Mustache:
First thing to note: I am obviously not a common forum poster. However, I am sick and tired of having games ruined by that one guy that doesn't respond. It's one thing if someone is chasing an achievement or doesn't agree with a captain on how to run a certain build. I get that, I don't want to punish that kind of independent thinking. However, the kind of situations we're dealing with are not those in which people disagree, and in my experience the people who use chat abusively are also not the single biggest issue, especially when I can simply mute the people that annoy me. It's those situations in which they simply don't respond at all. How will a CA fix that? How will a mod fix that?

For starters, I'd love to have access to CA's more quickly. I want to be able to type in global "is a CA handy?" and get immediate response. However, at 12:00am Pacific time, that's not the case. And even then, what can a CA do when someone does not respond to any communication AT ALL.

In all seriousness, this is the single most common problem I've seen: people don't respond, and it's the single most prominent reason why matches don't start faster. Matching people by skill level won't make it faster because, as we're all aware, this community is celebrated for the way it embraces new players mixing with old players and having everyone co-learn. It's when people are not communicating or they are fighting at each others throats while refusing to just go somewhere else that things go awry (more commonly, the former).

This is why I make these two suggestions, each of which to be necessary to the other and something derived from democracy, which even pirate ships organized under:

1: A vote kick

It's simple, it's called on by a captain, but no one votes until another captain (maybe two, or all) approve. Then, crew members on the aforementioned boat (or perhaps the whole team's crewmembers) will vote for the kick. Before all of that can happen though, a specific charge must be associated with the kick. "unresponsiveness" "trolling" "abusive language" "uncooperative" for example. But these charges have to be set in stone and described similarly to the report system as it exists now.

2: Impeachment

Just like a vote-kick, but for the captains. A crewman calls a vote, 2/3 or 3/4 of crew members approve (maybe just 1 half, even), then 1 or 2 captain approves (depends upon lobby size, I imagine. I can see 1 captain approval going awry in a 3v3 or 4v4). This is meant for that one guy that joins and grabs a captain seat, insists everyone ready up but has not addressed his crew and has brought a bunk loadout. It might occasionally apply to the guy chasing the harpoon achievement, but I'll admit that when I was chasing "Destroy 100 parts on a harpooned ship", I and my crews were frustrated and I'm not convinced I blame anyone who would have wanted to impeach me in lobby for it. I was lucky though, because there were a lot of people who were on board to knock that sucker out with me and I was grateful for it. 

I believe it was the economist Milton Friedman who argued against systems that depend upon "the right man being in charge". This is the problem with the CA/Mod system. At the same time, I think that opinions voice against vote kick functions are well founded. I think the solution is to develop a system in which a kick will take actual effort and conviction to achieve, but only requires those members of a lobby to make happen. I see no reason to believe that CA's and Mod's are solely capable of handling the problems of the community, but I do want to include them, even if only in some figure-head type of capacity.

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