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character progression needed

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Pagnasty:
not if you just give vets the buffs from a buff hammer .. somthing simple that can be counterd by non vets useing a buff hammer .. just MINOR change is all im talking about not like i said add FRIGGIN LAZERS !

JaegerDelta:

--- Quote from: Pagnasty on June 10, 2014, 12:17:48 pm ---not if you just give vets the buffs from a buff hammer .. somthing simple that can be counterd by non vets useing a buff hammer .. just MINOR change is all im talking about not like i said add FRIGGIN LAZERS !

--- End quote ---

but that isnt really simple.  buffing players completely removes the point of limiting loadout options for classes.  say you have a vet gunner; now that she/he no longer needs a buff on their gun an engineer is freed up to focus on repairs or put in even more extra damage right away.  in a game with a small playerbase character progression in such a way only alienates newcomers.

that style works in killing floor because you are not fighting other players.

Pagnasty:
Or a way to encourage new players to stick with the game to become better ... im a new player and i see if i play for 20 weeks it will be the same as if i play for 1 week .. other then my new eye patch ... but some kind of beneifit like 1% damage per level on a gunner sould encourage me to level ... plus whats teh reason for haveing the 1-3 game and the open to any lvl games if no diffrence in levels .. ? .. some time things can be to balanced ... but if you like your game the way it is good on ya .. who am i to come in here with new fangled ideas and input and voice them ... hope your game goes strong for a long time its a fun game .. just dont want to see it stagnate with the same 20 people flying the same 3 ships all year long ..  ( If you want everyone to be even every fight you should only have 1 ship with 1 type of gun also .. ) .........................

JaegerDelta:

--- Quote from: Pagnasty on June 10, 2014, 04:39:23 pm ---Or a way to encourage new players to stick with the game to become better ... im a new player and i see if i play for 20 weeks it will be the same as if i play for 1 week .. other then my new eye patch ... but some kind of beneifit like 1% damage per level on a gunner sould encourage me to level ... plus whats teh reason for haveing the 1-3 game and the open to any lvl games if no diffrence in levels .. ? .. some time things can be to balanced ... but if you like your game the way it is good on ya .. who am i to come in here with new fangled ideas and input and voice them ... hope your game goes strong for a long time its a fun game .. just dont want to see it stagnate with the same 20 people flying the same 3 ships all year long ..  ( If you want everyone to be even every fight you should only have 1 ship with 1 type of gun also .. ) .........................

--- End quote ---

i think you are missing the point.  this game is a pvp co-op which differs greatly from both straight co-op and straight pvp. 

in straight pvp, such as tf2, cod, battlefield, etc. a "progression" system is inplace to keep people playing the game and unlocking "better" weapons, but this is in reality just a device used by this type of game to keep you playing (and there for more inclined to spend more money) as no matter the weapon, any one player can be killed by any other player at any given time. the primary unit of interaction is the player, and those units are equal. (when i say equal i mean from a game mechanic stand point not equal aptitude at the game)

in striaght co-op a progression system is there again to facilitate your continued playing (and spending) but the system is arbitrary and largely of no consequence  because you are not in conflict with human opponents, sure it makes later content of the game easier, but that content is only harder so there can be a progression system that can latch on to your brain.  the player is again the primary interaction with the game mechanics and and is again equal with all other players, except in one aspect.  time spent playing. but as the players are not in conflict with one another and there is a scaling difficulty level, it makes no difference toward unit equality.

in a co-op pvp game, such as this, many of these ideas are turned around and some completely obiliterated.  the player is no longer the primary unit in the game, the primary unit is the ship.  the player, meanwhile, is a sub-unit, a fraction of the entity that is actually interacting with the game mechanics.  the object actually in conflict.

so you take our 4 person crews for 1 ship. the ship is the object actually in the action, making it the primary unit of interaction with the game mechanics. that means each player is 1/4th of a unit. and having access to all the same equipment and choices as every other 1/4th unit of the game, 4 of them can come together and make 1 whole unit that is exactly as equal, has had the same choices affecting the outcome, as any other 1 whole unit.

now if you start buffing players, i.e. through a conventional progresson system. those 1/4's are no longer equal and there for they could come together to make a whole unit that is greater than another whole unit, i.e. has a bias towards winning. a real, actual, game mechanically induced bias not just greater experience with the game. and that is a problem.

Imagine:

--- Quote from: Pagnasty on June 10, 2014, 04:39:23 pm ---Or a way to encourage new players to stick with the game to become better ... im a new player and i see if i play for 20 weeks it will be the same as if i play for 1 week .. other then my new eye patch ... but some kind of beneifit like 1% damage per level on a gunner sould encourage me to level ... plus whats teh reason for haveing the 1-3 game and the open to any lvl games if no diffrence in levels .. ? .. some time things can be to balanced ... but if you like your game the way it is good on ya .. who am i to come in here with new fangled ideas and input and voice them ... hope your game goes strong for a long time its a fun game .. just dont want to see it stagnate with the same 20 people flying the same 3 ships all year long ..  ( If you want everyone to be even every fight you should only have 1 ship with 1 type of gun also .. ) .........................

--- End quote ---
Novice games are there for you to learn the basics, but they're not forced, you can get into regular lobbies at any time. Novice games just don't let higher levels in.

You don't need to grind levels, you can get to lvl 5 or so pretty easily without doing anything special other than just playing the game. I personally have barely gone out of my way to get achievements done, and I'm sitting at 6/10/6.

Giving any sort of bonus passives to higher levels throws off the balance of the game greatly, one of the best things about the game is the only defining difference between players is experience and skill, which means that even though someone is lvl 15 they can still be beaten by a lvl 1 if that lvl 1 (and crew) knows what they're doing.

Anyways, if you're so dead set on character progression, Co-op mode will feature something of that sort.

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