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The role of an Engineer

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Victor Wonderpump:
Wouldn't pilot skills be more suited for the engineer than the pilot? Coming fresh to the game recently, I expected the Engineers being responsible for pushing the airframe above the safe operating limits to give the pilot some extra performance he needs.
Now the engineers are more like Steampunk janitors servicing the airship as it deteriorates during the game.

As I look the pure gameplay of the engineer class, it seems rather dull role to play. You are better than any other class in hitting stationary objects around the ship with a rubber mallet, wrench etc. and you run around doing just that as the engagement escalates (yes I know I'm exaggerating to make a point, and engineer class is now considered to be the most useful class, but that is only because it can do adequately all other roles when needed).

Now if the Engineer would be responsible for filling the balloon with helium, opening the moonshine tank valve, operating the chute vent, pouring tar directly in engines etc. he would take more direct role in PVP to outplaying the opposition and thus making the game more exiting for that role (and it would help the engineer class to stay in its role while letting pilot and gunner(s) to stick to theirs - you know gunners sticking to gunning, and captains focusing on maneuvering and communicating what he wants to be done next).

That was my first impression on that role, anyways awesome game! I like the slow pace co-op pvp experience and the visuals.  I'm quite exited about the Adventure mode.

SirNotlag:
I found the fun from the engineer role comes from when the ship crew actually works as a team and the pilot tells you long before hes actually burning the component to get enhanced performance and gives you time to shout back if thats a bad idea.

 ex " Im gona use hydrogen to get us out of here!" mean while an enemy flamer is pointed straight at your balloon "NO captain well reenact the hindenburg!".

There are plenty of small things to the repairing of the ship that take a lot of situational awareness to get right as well. learning routes around the ship to minimize the time between cool downs and anticipating what component is going to break next, and prioritizing what to fix when everything is broken.

Engineers also have thousands of little tricks that can be performed depending on the situation. Ex when the pilot is burning kerosene to zip past an enemy ship with the intention of turning around to put your ship on their rear, repairing the outermost turning engine as you pass the ship will speed up the turn. Pre-building is another example when you hit a component till it only has one hit before being rebuilt but then waiting till after the enemy hits you with a destructive volley so that you can get the most time out of the component before the enemy breaks it again.

If you could not tell I completely disagree with you that pilot skills should go to the engineer, pilot is in control of the ship and its movement. Sure his skills damage components but that is why he is supposed to work with the engineers to keep everything in good condition, it just doesn't make sense to give those skills to other people cause then you would be left with a pilot who has no idea why his ship is doing what its doing.

"WHY THE HELL IS THIS THING GOING UP! I CANT STOP IT!" "Oh thats cause i put hydrogen in the balloon, i saw that galleon was way above us and all." " YOU IDIOT YOUR PUTTING US RIGHT INFRONT OF HIS GUNS!" " well jeeze hes above all our gun arcs i was just trying to help." "WERE ALL GONA DIE! AAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!" <Loud explosions as galleon fires full volley, and they die>

The engineering job isnt about shooting its about management and situational awareness, which a lot of people including myself like, if you don't find that interesting stick to the other classes, and if your every forced engineer... hey at least you get to sit on the guns when not taking damage.

Crafeksterty:
Well i see that you are new, so first lemme explain some things to expect when you join a clan.

When you join a clan, you will most likely be orginized with clan peeps. So the chances of being on an orginized ship is greater.
When you are in an orginized ship every role are split. Gunner does something, engineer does something, that other engineer does something and the pilot does something.
Here are the things that higher level usually do.

Engineers sometimes have the act of being full time engineering. So not much gunning for him if at all.
Engineers sometimes get responsibility to one or 2 components, while gunning. These are called Gunengineers.
Some engineers are responsible for Everything, buffing and repairing and Gunning. This is probably the hardest and most effective one to have. However you loose the ability for him to spot as he is in his limits.
All engineers and Gunners Spot for the pilot. So that the pilot has 3 helm tools. Engineers and gunners look around to spot enemy ships for the pilot so that the pilot can more easily be aware.
There are some engineer build where they trade a gun because of their ammo. Like on a goldfish with hwacha, 2 engineers are the same but they switch out on range. One holds heavy clip for hwacha in range, but the other one holds burst for hwacha in Close Range.

Engineers usualy have a clear vision for ship limitations. This is something i as a pilot learned alot about simply playing as engineers/Gunners.
For example, if you play Pilot for a while and feel all the benefits from having engineers/gunners, then you know what to GIVE to other pilots whenever you are engineer.
I love to play as
--- Quote ---Some engineers are responsible for Everything, buffing and repairing and Gunning. This is probably the hardest and most effective one to have. However you loose the ability for him to spot as he is in his limits.
--- End quote ---
Because i like to relief the pilot with the buffs, and availability to gun. So that he expects a better working ship with a gun ready to fire constantly. etc etc.

Gunners can learn from being pilots. For example, not shooting directly on sight, but rather be aware if his own ship isnt moving too much and then fire.
While pilots learn on comfortability of the crew. Like if his build is way to demanding for the crew, he should switch out.


Now regarding your suggestion, it will potentialy sabotage the ship. There is a reason why a pilot is the captain, because he knows the ship, and thus in control of it. You mostly fulfill his requierments. But because of your timing as an engineer, you can make for a tanky ship.

Gunners have part timing, but mostly skill as their gameplay.
Pilots have experience + Mentality as their gameplay. (Or so imo)

WafflesToo:

--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on May 24, 2014, 11:52:25 am ---
Some engineers are responsible for Everything, buffing and repairing and Gunning. This is probably the hardest and most effective one to have. However you loose the ability for him to spot as he is in his limits.

--- End quote ---

Again, not clan but pub matches, every attempt of mine to play as a buffgineer has resulted in me feeling like a lead-weight around my captain's neck.  Not a feeling I enjoy at all and I doubt it's earning me any friends. 

I'm finding that the pipe wrench just isn't good enough to keep the hull up in a heavy firefight.  Maybe there's something I'm missing or doing wrong, I'd love some pointers.

(stares angrily at the buffing achievements)

Victor Wonderpump:

--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 24, 2014, 11:11:16 am ---I found the fun from the engineer role comes from when the ship crew actually works as a team and the pilot tells you long before hes actually burning the component to get enhanced performance and gives you time to shout back if thats a bad idea.

 ex " Im gona use hydrogen to get us out of here!" mean while an enemy flamer is pointed straight at your balloon "NO captain well reenact the hindenburg!".
--- End quote ---
Ok, but how's that an argument against giving pilot skills for  the engineer to manually operate? From my point of view you are actually endorsing giving the pilot skills to the engineer as the "fun" at times is about disagreeing with the pilot about the course of action. If the engineer has supervision over these systems he actually has a say in how they are used instead of just complaining about it - no?

--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 24, 2014, 11:11:16 am --- There are plenty of small things to the repairing of the ship that take a lot of situational awareness to get right as well. learning routes around the ship to minimize the time between cool downs and anticipating what component is going to break next, and prioritizing what to fix when everything is broken.

Engineers also have thousands of little tricks that can be performed depending on the situation. Ex when the pilot is burning kerosene to zip past an enemy ship with the intention of turning around to put your ship on their rear, repairing the outermost turning engine as you pass the ship will speed up the turn. Pre-building is another example when you hit a component till it only has one hit before being rebuilt but then waiting till after the enemy hits you with a destructive volley so that you can get the most time out of the component before the enemy breaks it again.

If you could not tell I completely disagree with you that pilot skills should go to the engineer, pilot is in control of the ship and its movement. Sure his skills damage components but that is why he is supposed to work with the engineers to keep everything in good condition, it just doesn't make sense to give those skills to other people cause then you would be left with a pilot who has no idea why his ship is doing what its doing.

"WHY THE HELL IS THIS THING GOING UP! I CANT STOP IT!" "Oh thats cause i put hydrogen in the balloon, i saw that galleon was way above us and all." " YOU IDIOT YOUR PUTTING US RIGHT INFRONT OF HIS GUNS!" " well jeeze hes above all our gun arcs i was just trying to help." "WERE ALL GONA DIE! AAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!" <Loud explosions as galleon fires full volley, and they die>
--- End quote ---
But when it comes down to actual gameplay mechanics, it's just running around the ship hitting inanimate objects with rubber mallets or whatnot.
To be clear I'm not arguing that there is no tactics in the role of an engineer, I'm just saying that I can't this kind of gameplay interesting for the majority on the long run as the pvp aspect of this role is pretty weak. There is definitely good engineers and bad engineers out there.
To me the most fun in this role simply comes from the awesome co-op action, working with your team to overcome the opposition - and not from the things you actually do (game mechanics wise) in game. I totally dig the whole co-op pvp thing here.

--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 24, 2014, 11:11:16 am --- The engineering job isnt about shooting its about management and situational awareness, which a lot of people including myself like, if you don't find that interesting stick to the other classes, and if your every forced engineer... hey at least you get to sit on the guns when not taking damage.

--- End quote ---
Agreed, I never made that claim.

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