Fellow Ex-Gunners Of Icarus Lend Me Your Ears!

[c-ponter]

One argument I see a lot for buffgineer on pyra is the bottom deck buffs, but if you pre-buff at the start of the match it only takes say 10secs to quickly run a buff run of the bottom deck and 99% of the time you will have that 10s warning before close range (or at least you would on most maps I would consider bringing a Hades front  pyra)
Obviously this won't be AS efficient as having 2 buff hammers, but you will still have the duration of the buffs tor that engagement, and how often does an engagement go on so long buffs run out AND you have time to re-buff instead of rebuilding anyway?

[BlackenedPies]

Yes, the wrench buff can buff the engines, hull, balloon, and guns but that takes time and often you need rebuffs asap. So the hades can buff top and the other buffs bottom. The extra spanner mallet allows better repairs on balloon and helping tank bottom deck much more efficiently.

I just don't think it's worth 30 meters.

[GeoRmr]

yeah of course because if they surprise you and manage to get inside arming time you can just turn the short range side

OH WAIT IT'S NOT A JUNKER.

[BlackenedPies]

If they surprise you and get in arm range you're dead regardless. Hades pyra only works if you start engagements at lesmok range. Any competent opponent that surprises you will kill you regardless of your 30 meters.

It's 30 meters.

[GeoRmr]

It's 30 meters.

[Replaceable]

It's 30 meters.

Best forum post of all time.

Geo won.

[BlackenedPies]

Yep. Swabbies don't need common sense. Be a gunner.

It's a ludicrous argument that -25% engines, -30% hull, -20% damage, -20% rebuild and -48% repair is worth an emergency oh shit we fucked up at least there's that 30 meters left ammo.

If you don't start the engagement at lesmok range against a competent opponent then you will lose. Having a gunner means you'll lose more but still think that 30 meters might make all the difference. Hint: you won't break their armor and kill them.

[GeoRmr]

Having a gunner means you'll lose more but still think that 30 meters might make all the difference. Hint: you won't break their armor and kill them.

My favourite part is every time it did, and how I know 30 meters makes all the difference.

[BlackenedPies]

Because they weren't dead already. Greased is a niche roll that shouldn't be necessary with a fully buffed ship. One of the main uses of greased is to increase dps at ranges that are not difficult to hit at. The dps of buff is 7% higher.

Run the numbers and the extra output of buffed engines and damage from gun buffs makes an emergency range unnecessary. If you start an engagement with gat mortar inside gat range then you lose.

[The Sky Wolf]

Wow, Squash! That was so well put! I'd like to think of a way to buff gunner without some unexplained.. magical.. cliche MMO stat boost.. But if gunners could reload 7-10% faster, and turn their turret 7-10% faster, would that be enough to make a huge difference?

What if.. Muse kept the stat boost a secret?

[BlackenedPies]

Simply adding a reload boost is not a balanced fix because it would affect each gun differently. Rof would also have to be increased by the same amount to keep a balanced time to empty clip / reload ratio. 10% bonus to rof and reload would be somewhat fair. Increasing turning speed doesn't do much and again it affects each gun differently so it's not balanced. Either a damage bonus and/or increased rof + reload.

[BlackenedPies]

To be clear, I think gunners should have an extra tool slot. The only way gunners can compete with a buff engi is with a dps bonus. In the absence of passive dps bonuses, the best simple option is providing an extra tool slot. A wrench buff gunner could significantly outperform a wrench buff chem engi in some situations.

Then again I think gunners are reasonably balanced. They're for beginners then you grow up with more responsibilities. Engineers always have a job. It's a lot more complex and fun. Gunners are inefficient and lazy.

[Omniraptor]

+1 for either removing vanilla ammo, or giving gunners second repair tool.

[Sammy B. T.]

it is so weird seeing this thread keep getting necro-ed. Its like an artifact. Its amazing to see how some things never change but some things have super changed.

[The Sky Wolf]

There's 2 types of items we use. Wieldable items, and Icon items.


#1. Wieldable items - These are items that you can actually hold to help your team with (Examples: Spyglass, Rangefinder, Spanner, Rubber Mallet, etc)

#2. Icon items - These are items that are never seen, and only you can use them while mounting a specific object like a gun or the helm. (Examples: Kerosene, Moonshine, Greased rounds, Burst rounds, etc)



The Pilot utility belt contains both iconic items for his specific job, and wieldable items that other classes can use.
The Gunner utility belt contains iconic items for his specific job, but no wieldable items that other classes can use.
The Engineer utility belt contains wieldable items that other classes can use, but no iconic items specifically for himself to use.


The gunner needs some wieldable items to make himself more useful, as he only really needs 2 ammo slots 90% of the time, and the engineer could possibly use some iconic items to boost engines possibly.