Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas

[GeoRmr]

I've made a thread here: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4125.0.html
rather than reposting and restructuring my previous ideas in this thread, in order to illustrate my point and create a more definitive proposal.

[MidnightWonko]

Here's an idea: more charts/graphs.  The numbers are practically an incomprehensible mess of gibberish.

Even something as simple as lining the stats up in rows and columns would make it way easier.

[Mezhu]

And another thing, sorry for yet another double post.

Have you considered my Injection proposal, of turning it into a Turret ammo type? I think it helps resolve a lot of gunner utility issues that are being adressed, and creates a very niche, situational ammo type that is extremely hard to use but allows for tremendous rewards if properly applied, while also slightly boosting the offensive potentials of Spires and Mobulas without affecting the other ships as much.

I'll type it here once again in case it got hidden with all the posts and stuff and I'll shut up afterwards.

Injection Clip-95% rotation
+30..50% rate of fire
-10..30% damage
+80% damage done to gun with entire clip
Does not stop firing until clip's emptied


Practically turns the gun into a turret that can be preaimed, allowing for gunners to 'use' more than 1 guns at the same time, giving some ships the ability to improve their offense while allowing engineers to return to defensive positions (5fecta mobulas anyone?). The ammo type is far too situational to be used by engineers and gives the gunner a more active role of quickly rotating the ship to set the guns up in proper arcs. Gives pilot a whole new thing to learn, as it turns ships into 'biplanes' with fixed turret aiming. Is hard to use effectively, even harder to use to its' maximum efficiency, promoting crew communication and practice.

[vyew]

And another thing, sorry for yet another double post.

Have you considered my Injection proposal, of turning it into a Turret ammo type? I think it helps resolve a lot of gunner utility issues that are being adressed, and creates a very niche, situational ammo type that is extremely hard to use but allows for tremendous rewards if properly applied, while also slightly boosting the offensive potentials of Spires and Mobulas without affecting the other ships as much.

I'll type it here once again in case it got hidden with all the posts and stuff and I'll shut up afterwards.

Injection Clip-95% rotation
+30..50% rate of fire
-10..30% damage
+80% damage done to gun with entire clip
Does not stop firing until clip's emptied


Practically turns the gun into a turret that can be preaimed, allowing for gunners to 'use' more than 1 guns at the same time, giving some ships the ability to improve their offense while allowing engineers to return to defensive positions (5fecta mobulas anyone?). The ammo type is far too situational to be used by engineers and gives the gunner a more active role of quickly rotating the ship to set the guns up in proper arcs. Gives pilot a whole new thing to learn, as it turns ships into 'biplanes' with fixed turret aiming. Is hard to use effectively, even harder to use to its' maximum efficiency, promoting crew communication and practice.

This is as niche as it can get. It is interesting, fun, and has a high skill ceiling and encourages having a 2nd effective ammo to salvage an attack run or to simply not have to rely only on this ammo.


Personal suggestion: An ammo that shoots around cover (not proximity rounds). A gunner would shoot away from the cover, after which the bullets would curve towards the target, thereby requiring skill to manipulate the bullet arc.

tl;dr curving bullets

[Dementio]

Ammo that makes the projectile follow the cursor while it's in mid-air? It would make long range easier. Question would be if the cursor can change the arcs by moving up and down.

[Milevan Faent]

And another thing, sorry for yet another double post.

Have you considered my Injection proposal, of turning it into a Turret ammo type? I think it helps resolve a lot of gunner utility issues that are being adressed, and creates a very niche, situational ammo type that is extremely hard to use but allows for tremendous rewards if properly applied, while also slightly boosting the offensive potentials of Spires and Mobulas without affecting the other ships as much.

I'll type it here once again in case it got hidden with all the posts and stuff and I'll shut up afterwards.

Injection Clip-95% rotation
+30..50% rate of fire
-10..30% damage
+80% damage done to gun with entire clip
Does not stop firing until clip's emptied


Practically turns the gun into a turret that can be preaimed, allowing for gunners to 'use' more than 1 guns at the same time, giving some ships the ability to improve their offense while allowing engineers to return to defensive positions (5fecta mobulas anyone?). The ammo type is far too situational to be used by engineers and gives the gunner a more active role of quickly rotating the ship to set the guns up in proper arcs. Gives pilot a whole new thing to learn, as it turns ships into 'biplanes' with fixed turret aiming. Is hard to use effectively, even harder to use to its' maximum efficiency, promoting crew communication and practice.

This is as niche as it can get. It is interesting, fun, and has a high skill ceiling and encourages having a 2nd effective ammo to salvage an attack run or to simply not have to rely only on this ammo.


Personal suggestion: An ammo that shoots around cover (not proximity rounds). A gunner would shoot away from the cover, after which the bullets would curve towards the target, thereby requiring skill to manipulate the bullet arc.

tl;dr curving bullets

Ammo that makes the projectile follow the cursor while it's in mid-air? It would make long range easier. Question would be if the cursor can change the arcs by moving up and down.

... How would either of these concepts be possible? There is no logic behind them at all. Admittedly, proximity doesn't necessarily make too much sense, but it at least makes more sense than curving bullets, or magical bullets that move with the cursor after being fired.

[Dementio]

Does it have to be realistic?

[awkm]

We had 'homing' in beta.....

Not sure about following cursor, though.  Might require a lot of work for that feature.

[Crafeksterty]

Dont know if we need homing now with proximity.

Ive come up with a few tweak suggestions.

Burst Rounds Change
300%+ AOE (Dont really know a healthy number)
Projectiles activate in 200% of new AOE
20% clip size
25%- Rate of fire
50%- Overall Damage
Would be a good change for proximity, or just directly input it for the Burst Rounds.


Incindiary Change
Add in that extra fire (10 or so extra %)
With 25%+ aoe.



Also, is Max health on guns any possibility? Heatsink could go for that, along with an ammo type dedicated to it (Barricade).

Also, questioning a flashback to when gunners (or anyone) could load ammo into guns without having to be in them for the last microsecond once on the dev app.
With a possible introduction to new gunner ammo and perhaps an engineer tool that may make gunners life easier... Would that reload mechanic be for the better or worse? Because i dont remember why it was so bad.

[MrJeff]

What about Heat-seeking? After a standard arming time, it makes slight course adjustments toward the hottest point in it's directional cone. Not enough to bend around most cover, but enough to focus on some already inflamed components. Pair with someone firing incendiary rounds, it would bring additional meaning to "focus fire".

Note: Do not fire into your ally's close-quarter flamer-heavy scrum. 

Point to consider: How would flares help/hinder/modify this. Either act to distract... or as a way to paint a target?

--

Is there a design consideration around what ammo can do? There are a few damage types, but what about inflicting other conditions to components. (Electrical Shorts, Frozen/Iced, Blinded sights on guns.) Is that along the lines that you are looking for? It would be a way to work in ammo-synergy and ways to encourage varied ammo usage.

[Crafeksterty]

Blinded sights on guns

Huh!! Never tought of that.

Edit: Actualy, i once suggested the light flaks puff of smoke when it hits something to be larger.
Now that i think about it, Is it possible to make an ammo type, force the explosion effect follow the enemy ship at where its being hit at?

For example, shooting at a racing pyramidion wont be so blinded but the smoke from light flaks shooting at it, but an ammo that prolongs the explosion animation while following the enemy ship (Or explosion animation follows the enemy ship where it hit him).

I mean, it could be straight up

Smoke Ammo
The explosion of the gun lasts for 3 seconds longer on direct hits as well as it stays with the enemy ships momentum.

[MrJeff]

Blinded sights on guns

Huh!! Never tought of that.

I was trying to think of alternate methods to anno...er...confront people. Mud to block sights, tar to lock a weapon in place, foam to jam the barrels,  etc. I had this thought of a squid sneaking up behind people and making them unable to fight back for a small period of time. It wouldn't win DM's by yourself, but in point games it could prevent the death of your ally-on-the-spot.

I'm sure more creative people could come up with others. I've been trying to come up with one that would simply unseat the enemy gunner, like when a gun is fully damaged or far too hot. Force them to sit back down and re-aim. I can't think of anything interesting enough. Same with the "force their gun to go into reload mode" ammo.

[awkm]

RE: Status effects

Adding an effect on a targeted component might be possible.  What it would, though, is that it won't be repairable.  I don't want to introduce another tool to negate the effect meaning it can't be TOO detrimental like fire stack.  Intermittently emitting a distracting spark might be okay, doesn't go away until the gun is destroyed.  It'll take a while for these kinds of ammo to make it in though since it'll involved both code and time, although probably less than new tools.  I like the idea.

RE: Homing/heat seeking

Our 'homing' is basically like heat seeking.  It'll look for engines more or less.  Haven't played with it in a long time but it's still in the code.  We may be able to pull it out and make it a skill modifier.

RE: Not being there last second

It was a risk/reward and information display decision.  If you're not there to reload the gun, and it's reloading on its own, how do I know what ammo the gun is being loaded with?  Now that we have additional UI and such, it might not be a big deal.  It's something to discuss but will undoubtedly be a huge change gameplay wise.  For better or worse, unsure.

[GeoRmr]

Blinded sights on guns

Huh!! Never tought of that.

Edit: Actualy, i once suggested the light flaks puff of smoke when it hits something to be larger.
Now that i think about it, Is it possible to make an ammo type, force the explosion effect follow the enemy ship at where its being hit at?

For example, shooting at a racing pyramidion wont be so blinded but the smoke from light flaks shooting at it, but an ammo that prolongs the explosion animation while following the enemy ship (Or explosion animation follows the enemy ship where it hit him).

I mean, it could be straight up

Smoke Ammo
The explosion of the gun lasts for 3 seconds longer on direct hits as well as it stays with the enemy ships momentum.

I thought the clouds we have were bad enough... XD

[Crafeksterty]

They are, but this is a bit more specific to Crew vision. Like, simply taking away their physical vision for 3 or so seconds. Being in clouds, takes away actual vision of sorts.
Its not like the smoke rounds will stop spotting, just make it hard for pilot/Gunners to see when getting hit.

2 Light flaks/Artemis/1 Mortar/ and maybe some other can keep a ship blinded haha, and give a reason for Explosive weapons to be shot early XD