Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 20, 2014, 06:53:38 pm ---
I heard that there used to be ammo types that loaded faster than others but that it could be exploited so you could use the faster reload time to load in a better ammo type... WHY IS THIS CONSIDERED AN EXPLOIT! Why not make it a feature?!
--- End quote ---
Because it would be a must have type tool then. I mean, for now, sure. But for the future, not healthy at all.
I would like ammo that reload at different rate if the auto-reload mechanic is back, because then whenever you switch ammo even mid reload, you start reloading again. But you are allowed to reload an ammo without having to be in it for the last second. So im yes for faster reload ammo if the auto-reload is back, but not in its current mechanic. Would be exploited to bits and hell, everyone would use it.
SirNotlag:
Crafeksterty I get the feeling you didn't read all of my post, i was not talking about bringing those ammo types back i was talking about getting an additional tool, sure it would be mandatory for gunners but so is some form of fire protection for the engineers.
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 20, 2014, 10:23:12 pm --- Crafeksterty I get the feeling you didn't read all of my post, i was not talking about bringing those ammo types back i was talking about getting an additional tool, sure it would be mandatory for gunners but so is some form of fire protection for the engineers.
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Except fire protection ISN'T mandatory, it's just almost always needed on at least 1 engineer. Unless the enemy team has a lot of fire, you could get away with just a single chem spray. A reload tool like you suggest would be absolutely necessary ALL the time. That's not the kind of thing I'd want.
Caprontos:
I can't reply to this all short so.. sowwy..
--- Quote from: awkm on May 20, 2014, 01:13:53 pm ---RE: Normal Ammo
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While I get where the normal ammo idea comes from, I think it would just remove currently valid strategies for certain ships (mainly junker, spire, mobula) and add little to nothing to the gunner class because he wouldn't be any more useful in most cases on guns he is not already useful on. - imo.
Consider, how does this make a captain want a gunner on a merc or a gatling gun (and really any gun you don't normally use a gunner for, and opt for third engineer) anymore then they do right now? It wouldn't change it very much I think - if at all, but it would make lesmonk useless as an ammo in most cases for an engineer, that -to be effective- has to use guns to and be in the spots that he is (at lest two spots on every ship, save rare cases).
I think instead of removing useful functions, to pretend you improved the gunner class its better to try to improve the gunner class so he is chosen for useful reasons, over the third engineer... more at the bottom on this..
--- Quote from: awkm on May 20, 2014, 01:13:53 pm ---RE: Loading gun at last second
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Can't we have our cake and eat it to..? Why not just make it reload the last used ammo - but your free to change it if you want up to near last second?.. and make changes that happen literally last second not happen, if it means the gun will reload completely.. That would useful, if possible..
I end up having to reload because I jump in a gun to late and hit the key to switch to the right ammo thinking I will make it.. I have caused us to lose games over it.. and at lest a point.. or not getting a kill when should of.. etc..
Why mitigate one risk and add another?.. I am sure I am not the only one who has/will do this..
If an issue is, well then Player A can just load ammo X and player B doesn't need to bring it to use it... add in a mechanic that if when the clip is being reloaded, the player that emptied it didn't have the ammo that matches it goes normal.. - after typing the below this might be why we can't have our cake and eat it to :P haha.
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I was thinking, what makes a gunner useful right now, he is useful on a hades, a mine launcher, and the medium guns..
Why is he useful? because he can make the gun effective at three (possibly four if normal is useful in some cases over the three other types commonly used) ranges in most cases.. which is for more useful then an engineer who can do two at best (mostly in cases you need engineers shooting), and one in most cases where a gunner isn't currently useful anyway.
But you can't just add ammo that makes the other guns useful at three ranges realistically.. because.. they do not have enough range to really get the same benefit.. engagements happen to fast for it to happen when inside gatling range.. and giving these guns more range, brings up balance issues..
So you would need to, if you wanted to go the purely ammo route, find ways to use the other two ammo slots.. that can be used quickly (if it takes to much time, it isn't going to be useful in most cases), and be useful enough that a buff hammer + more repair power isn't just out right better.
Ammo that can give you advantage positioning, like the ammo that makes the enemy unable to raise up quickly... which brings up the "time" issue... or ammo that is more effective if your maybe at 50% of the normal range of the gun.. then the most commonly used ammo.. to give gunners a two range option..
I think - basically gunners need buffed for brawling ships/ guns, they are already used plenty for sniper ships.. or at lest guns that can hit longer range. Granted you could add ways to buff gunner value on a merc (marker ammo that can mark through clouds, is an example why you might want him over a buff engineer)... mostly this is on a mobula though..
I don't think you need to remove the value of three engineers to make gunners useful.. you just have to find ways - that fit what you want to do with it - that will make the gunner valid over a third engineer for meaningful reasons... Gunner utility and gunner combat value vs "third" engineer are things that need reviewed..
Any nerf to engineer - is a nerf that effects all the spots that have to be an engineer - just as much as the third engineer that is the issue.. and won't necessarily make gunners more useful...
Hopefully that makes sense.. haha..
SirNotlag:
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on May 20, 2014, 10:50:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: SirNotlag on May 20, 2014, 10:23:12 pm --- Crafeksterty I get the feeling you didn't read all of my post, i was not talking about bringing those ammo types back i was talking about getting an additional tool, sure it would be mandatory for gunners but so is some form of fire protection for the engineers.
--- End quote ---
Except fire protection ISN'T mandatory, it's just almost always needed on at least 1 engineer. Unless the enemy team has a lot of fire, you could get away with just a single chem spray. A reload tool like you suggest would be absolutely necessary ALL the time. That's not the kind of thing I'd want.
--- End quote ---
Correction it is ALWAYS NEEDED on at least one engineer unless you want to go down in a fiery blaze.
Sure every gunner would take this tool, but i can see engineers passing it up for an additional ammo type because they have to be running around and cant sit on the gun to see any use out of it. This thread is about giving ideas that will buff the gunner and there is my idea! I'm not proposing some god item here, it pretty much makes reloading for gunners more interactive and more efficient, and it seems small enough in scope to be easy to implement and take out if its no fun.
Sorry to come off as aggressive but i feel you misquoted and misunderstood me,
we ARE allowed to have differing opinions.
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