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Gunner Tool: Addons
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote ---All pilot skills (aside from the 2 spotters) must be used at the helm, the engineer skills are used while running around, gunner ammo is used on or while shooting a gun.
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Then i wanna try this! For reals!
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on May 16, 2014, 08:14:49 pm ---
These addons if selected on a gun produce the effect without reload instantanious.
This both balances out a bit on my idea. Which then is so that you cannot use 2 addons at a time, but you still can use one ammo type and an addon.
Not only that, it does not really need new graphics or models. Maybe some form of graphic in the future. But atm, an addon can work as a passive if selected on a gun.
So a gunner jumps on a lochnagar loaded heavy flak, all he has to do is choose oil addon once there. That way we get rid of the cooldown mechanic, we get rid off addons being held on the player hand. Only thing it does is modify the weapon on selection.
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An instant gun effect on selection (Much like a helm tool, just one a gun) would be pretty neat. The ammos function is on reload. There are no instant effects from the gunner.
awkm:
I really want to keep this to ammo for now.
Selection other than selecting your tools and following existing interaction paradigms and its related UI will take months of work to implement, and then more months to test. Adding/removing/tweaking ammo is the fastest thing we can do with minimal feature implementation. If I had to guess, adding these new Gunner mechanics like passives or addons won't make it till Co-Op if we ever decide to pursue them.
However, this doesn't mean these kinds of additive effects cannot exist. The issue is with UI and interaction. When you're on a ship, we need to think about how players will select these various addons where they will happen. Adding new buttons to press or menus is very clunky so I'd like to avoid those as much as possible. This brings us all the way back to the ammo themselves but also how you select which ammo to bring. There may be something that can be done here like all the 3 equipped ammos affecting each other in some way. Maybe deciding which slot they go into is important. Maybe the mixture the 3 ammos becomes your default in some weird way? These things may have potential. However, I also want to stay away from passives and random things. The experience as a gunner (and the rest of Guns) is active, you are doing all of the time and not run around with a magic aura. Randomness is just unclear and doesn't allow players to be active when they want to.
Yeah, there are a lot of constraints but some constraints are always good. I don't think there are too many right now. Constraints and following design principles and previously established paradigms means the game is easy to understand and the systems don't feel like band-aid fixes. Instead, they should be deep and rich with many viable options. There are some good ideas here, let's keep going in that direction.
We have passives before in beta but there were several issues with them. I'll bring the idea up again with the rest of the team to see what they think. If possible, I'd still like to generate more ammo ideas.
AbbyTheRat:
I had a small idea that might actually help balance the gunners out a bit with the engineers.
Move the buff hammer to gunners. (Of course something will need to replace it for the engineers to bring the balance back up a bit)
The idea is similar to the telescope. Pilot rarely take it, it's mostly Engineers/Gunners. Gunners would rather take buff hammer but Pilot and Engineer would. It'll also add a little more trade-off. Do I take the buff ammo instead of an ammo type?
It'll make the engineer a stronger engineer if they take the buff hammer but at a trade off of being limited to just normal ammo. So if possible, a new tool for the engineer to give them that more choice and there be a lot more to decide.
Crafeksterty:
Damn, well then. There have been other threads circulating ammo and ideas around and in it.
I cant recall atm, but in the end its always the reload that is making me cringe.
But you have to answer this atleast, and people have made suggestions regarding it all the time and it is The Reload Speed!
How well can that be implemented.
How about gun health, can it be durable when an ammo is applied and etc.
But these questions and answers can be shown elsewhere when you guys decide to change the gunner up a bit.
awkm:
Yeah we can do something with gun health. Finding a way so it makes that ammo can add health is another story :P
We had variable reload speeds before in beta. The way ammo worked at that time make it very broken so we had to ditch it. I have a feeling it might still be a little broken but I haven't sat down to think of all the edge cases yet. Either way, it feels very risky to me knowing what it was like before and how easily it broke :(
And not to say that these are ideas we can't do... it's just that I'd like to evaluate what can easily be done before saying yes to a ton of work that won't be done for months. It's a matter of finding the path of least resistance and that path is through thinking of new ammo. To be honest, the addons might be the solution we're looking for but I need to bring it up with the team to decide of how 'passive' we think they are. In addition to variable reload speeds, there were also passives.. believe it or not lol.
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