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Guns of Icarus and the Law of Diminishing Returns

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GreyTea:

--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on May 08, 2014, 10:45:07 am ---Double merc pyra? Its nice because you nearly always start a match in its prime position, being opposite ends of a map, and across some for of open terrain. It still lacks versatility, killing power, and accuracy due to the arc of projectile weapons.

More times then not, double mercs cant kill a ship if that ship flat out charges them and gets within a range where the merc fire is consistent enough to do much. One merc and an arty has more potential to, plus added disable and explosive. Merc/L.flak has the quickest kill potential.

--- End quote ---

I run a galleon with merc duel flak left side hwatcha carro right,mine launcher rear, and with a buff engineer down stares and a gunner it is normally devastating within 1000m charged merc, double flak charged buffed, in this thread though that could be better with a lumberjack or hwatcha to complement the flak and instead maybe change ammo to loch buff? or is this where duel explosives comes in handy like alistair stated?

RearAdmiralZill:
While you gain the additional chance to flat out kill something when the armor is down, you lack the versatility of a H.Flak and x. I don't like a merc paired with Lj because 1. the Lj will spoil the merc arcs and 2. LJ can take out hull armor pretty handily on its own. So a H.Flak/Hwacha would lessen your chance at the kill shot and lower your max range, but opens up disables, and a gun that would work at close range in case you get charged on that broadside.

In the end its what you want your boat to be doing, and how versatile you want to be. Guns is funny in that I think you just lose more versatility (and thus become more counter-able) vs just flat out getting less return. This is why people still take builds of doubling up the same gun.

Alistair MacBain:
A dual flak is barely ever useful imo ...
A single flak can instagib everything thats not a galleon or goldy. The first will be slow enough to get another clip in before it reaches you. The second has a frontgun that can be disabled quite easy. And you have your teammate ;).
A lumberjack merc flak is probably the best and most versatile build at longrange. The arc limits doesnt matter when your enemy is at above 1k. Below your already screwed.
A hwacha has a maxrange of 1.2k so you might want to swap the merc for a hades instead which gives you nearly the same longrange potential with good gunners but a much better closerange.
But with a hwacha you dont really need the flak as a hwacha can do severe damage to everything just like a flak does. And it is much easier to hit with if you only care for the explosive dmg hitting the enemy.
Then i would always use a lj hwacha hades ...
Superior midrange and a similiar longrange.

The diminishing returns on explosive weapons are usually pretty high if they dont have anything else to offer. A hflak will kill an enemy just as good as 2. You will barely ever need it.
I also think that you dont really need a gunner for a flak. All you need is a buffkit and charged. I would barely use a gunner for a flak on a galleon. There are much better guns for the gunner.
Lesmok isnt to useful due to 1 shot only. Yes you get your shots easier but you have alot of time if you pair it with other weapons and differentiate your dmg types.
Sure heatsink and lochnager are nice to decrease the arming range but you already have a problem when your enemy gets within your 300m.

GeoRmr:
I feel this topic is somewhat in reference to the Sky-league finals and the recent flame-thrower buff. (please forgive me if this is entirely unrelated) In defence of the double carronade pyramidion build I would like to briefly explain the rational behind our ship choice.

You can use heavy-clip to exploit the carronades secondary shatter damage type. Heavy-clip also allows for faster dps and range than greased rounds but sadly lacks enough ammo per clip to pop a Balloon (4, where 5 shots would be needed) with 2 carronades you have the potential to both pop the enemies balloon and disable 3 components (guns or engines) in a very short space of time. In practice our ship choices were very effective (more so than flamer carronade* which we also experimented with) against the double meta-junkers we sparred with in preparation, rapidly disabling and popping enemies. Once the first target had its guns disabled the metamidion would then have a chance to secure the kill (Usually a junker using gattling mortar would win due to its smaller hull profile and greater armour value).

I still very much feel that our choice of ships was the correct viable counter at the time, but (along with myriad of positioning and focusing mistakes on our part) we were simply out-classed by the ducks who had far more experience flying their usual iconic play-style.

*prior to the flamer patch

RearAdmiralZill:

--- Quote ---A single flak can instagib everything thats not a galleon or goldy.
--- End quote ---

Thus double H.Flak could kill everything. An advantage.


--- Quote --- The arc limits doesnt matter when your enemy is at above 1k. Below your already screwed.
--- End quote ---

Not true. Most kills will actually happen at that range because your shots would be much more consistent at or below 1k vs farther out. That is of course unless you fancy sitting at map edges.

I wont get into gunner vs engie. And really at this stage we hit the difference of opinion, so truly gauging diminishing return is based on personal thoughts.

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