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1.3.6 Flamethrower Changes
vyew:
Currently there seems to be a temporary meta revolving around the flamethrower.
Ship builds: Gat/Flamer, Carronade/Flamer and Flamer/Flamer on ships with arcs for only 2. Triple flamer for ships that can do it.
Gunner loadouts: Heatsink, with Chem Spray to cover reloads.
Engineer loadouts: Wrench/Chem Spray/Extinguisher.
Wrench because you have no time to be buffing/spannering/skygods forbid mallets anyways due to having to constantly refresh Chem Spray and repair direct fire damage. In between applications of Spray, components will have already accumulated a decent amount of direct fire damage to justify a Wrench strike.
Chem Spray because, well, no Chem Spray means that a few seconds of exposure to flamers is the end of your ship's ability to retaliate.
Extinguisher to bandage missed Chem Spray applications.
Even with this loadout I find that who shoots first (gooo Lesmok) wins the engagement as the hull armor (not to mention the balloon, guns, engines) cannot be kept up under the direct damage of 2 to 3 flamers. Or at least, I tried, and then the balloon went down ha ha ha :D
Either way, perhaps this could be kept in as a joke/fun game mode. The flamer meta is absolutely hilarious right now ;D. Just the pure panic and helplessness of the engineers (both sides, because everyone is running the flamer meta) as they watch their perma-chem sprayed components get heavily damaged anyway, and then someone misses their chem spray re-application... eh heh heh heh. Abject horror :D
And sometimes, elated triumph as you wonder how you survived the fight with 10+ fire stacks on everything and sliver of permahull left while the enemy ship vaporizes from the heat derived from the unmitigated fiery wrath of the ruinous skygods. It makes for rather fast matches :)
awkm:
Unfortunately, if it feels like a joke then it's not really good and needs to be fixed.
Another thing I'm looking at is tweaking Fire damage multipliers.
Imagine:
--- Quote from: vyew on April 28, 2014, 11:38:30 am ---Currently there seems to be a temporary meta revolving around the flamethrower.
--- End quote ---
Calling something meta after just a few hours of release is a little... silly. It generally takes some time after patches to figure out things, just like how after mines and hades were introduced pretty much everyone was like what the hell is this useless crap.
Skrimskraw:
gonna give some early feedback here:
the matches I played was on a spire, and it felt like we were unable to fight backa s soon as those double flamers hooked in on us. The double flamer deals slightly lesser damage to your permahull than a mortar.
The matches felt like it was a matter of who fired his flamer first, I absicly ordered my crew to fire our flamer and dont repair, since the hull would go down in a matter of seconds anyway.
So yea the double flamer works like a gatling and a mortar. furthermore the fires to balloon, engines and guns also makes it feel like you are being disabled by a hwacha.
from what I can tell there are basicly 3 things with the flamer making it imbalanced.
1. the on hit damage is so high, that it wrecks perma hull
2. the amount of "bullets" in the gun is too many, and the reload speed is too low.
3. the fire stacks goes up too quickly.
of all the 3 things the last is the one that I would like the flamer to keep.
so lets say you chemspray your entire ship, ok you are immune, then suddenly chemspray wears off, if your engineer is not there on the spot at the moment to renew it you are screwed: 20 stacks incoming fast and your component is down, repairing it takes time and meanwhile your other ship parts catches fire and you are now under completely lockdown by 2 flamethrowers that never stops shooting.
are we to put chemspray on our gunners, and have chemspray on all engineers? that seems to be the only solution here if you end up in a brawl with these double flamers.
the second you start shooting back, some part of your ship loses chemspray and catches fire, you either go full dps and try to get the kill, which you wont due to the fact that your guns will soon be useless. Or you go full defense and die anyway.
also fire extinguisher might aswell be removed from the game, since your hull, balloon, engines, guns will break if you even think about extinguishing the 20 stacks.
edit:
will do more testing hopefully, but this is what I got so far.
Mezhu:
The only thing I consider TOO strong about the current flamer is the ignition chance. An unsprayed component will suffer extreme amounts of fire stacks in zero time, an unsprayed ship will just be set ablaze and quickly burn out.
I'm all for a change of meta- I had huge amounts of fun playing today both using the flamer and facing it. It's not 'uncounterable', in the sense that with an average crew we were still able to survive encounters and get kills safely versus ships utilizing a flamer+something combination. It adds tension and changes the way engineering is done (different priorities, more varied loadouts depending on enemy guns etc). However I'm certain that it would be literally impossible to stand a chance against such a combination when fighting on a ship with spread-out components such as the mobula or the spire, and in any way the gun is far too punishing to inexperienced/uncoordinated crews.
I'm in for keeping the flamethrower a viable alternative to the previous meta but it would still have to be tweaked. Wundsalz's suggestions of strongly nerfing the flamer would result in it being once again turned into a low-tier gun that's only used on casual games or in very specific loadouts to disrupt enemy repairs and prolong fights. I think we should instead embrace change and see how allowing the gun to renew the meta could actually refresh tactics and gameplay.
There's a lot of ways the gun can be changed without being thrown into the pit again;
-Reduce the ignition chance to half but not any less
-Keep the ignition as is but at least have it do no damage by itself
-Reduce the range
-Reduce the rate of fire
edit:
or just completely rebalance it and turn it into a medium gun :fire::fire: :D
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