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Point the Goldfish's guns forward

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Nidh:
A single front facing gun would make it better than the pyramidion, beating it in maneuverability, firepower, tanky-ness, and ease of use. I hate to say this because i really want a buff to the goldie myself, but i think it's pretty well balanced... But it is definitely a support ship that requires a good ally ship to really have it shine. Taking kills is not it's job, it's job is to give its ally advantages over a target. If we give the goldie an easy way of killing things, it would be the best ship hands down in the game.

redria:

--- Quote from: Dutch Vanya on April 03, 2014, 01:35:44 pm ---Would another front facing gun on the roof make it too powerful? Too similar to the spire?

--- End quote ---
Too similar/powerful probably.
Junker and Galleon - 2 guns on each side, plus a gun facing along the axis of movement (plus the galleon gets a side light weapon).
Pyramidion and Mobula - Strong forward facing arcs combined with poor maneuverability and large blindspots.
Squid and Goldfish - Featured front gun with 2 more guns at 90 degree angles from each other. High maneuverability with low damage output.
Spire - (when not dead) Strong arc overlap with no durability

Junkers and galleons get good arc overlaps, and thus have seen more use in competitive play. Good gunning/engineering can help overcome piloting deficiencies. Good communication ships.
Pyramidions and mobulas get good arc overlap, and thus have seen more use in competitive play. Pilot awareness is key to protect blindspots.
Spires - ??? Opponent has a merc/hades/gatling? gg (not really, but spire is the weakest ship IMO)
Squids and goldfish have poor arc overlap and thus have seen less use in competitive play. Ability of pilot to blend all weapons into use regularly is a must, and engineering oversights can leave you drifting.

Squids and goldfish properly maintained have amazing durability, and can enter battles and disengage better than any other ship. Lacking is the ability to get easy overlap of guns. It requires much higher pilot focus to blend together 2 guns at the angles used. Change the angles and make overlap easier and you get ships that can easily engage and disengage, and also get kills quickly without requiring the pilot to be perfectly dialed in.

I consider the squid to be the pilot's biggest challenge, and the goldfish to be the ship needing the highest level of synergy between gunner and pilot. I know this isn't about the squid, but it does come up. Watching Puppy Fur fly a squid makes me feel like a hack who gets by on just a couple tricks. The same can really be true about a goldfish. A goldfish is really sort of a heavy squid - as Nidh says, a ship that gives its ally an advantage. We already have ships with strong arc overlap. A well flown squid or goldfish are much more interesting to see fly, simply because it takes a lot more creativity to blend in different damage types.

TL;DR: Goldfish can be effective, just not in the same way as other ships. Giving it easier overlap makes it more boring. It simply requires more skill and dedication to be truly effective, and more trust in your ally.

Velvet:
goldfish isn't balanced. Anything works in pubs, so imo the only relevance of balance in non-high level play is how it contributes to the game being fun. I feel the current balance of the goldfish is not fun, because firstly it makes the goldfish unexciting to crew on and secondly makes the Goldfish pretty rare leading to less variety in most matches.

High level is much the same as pubs. Weak Goldfish = less variety and less interest and fun, a narrower choice of viable ships leading to a shallower and less varied tactical layer. Competitive is the good proof that the goldfish is weak - because no one really uses it.

Could those postulating that the goldfish would be OP with a narrow trifecta (limited to certain guns) suggest some of the ship builds that they think would be too powerful and how the issue would emerge? I don't really see it myself but I may be missing something.

Redria, I don't think it's right to attribute the rarity of the Goldfish and squid in competitive to piloting difficulty. Some teams will learn anything if it will work best. They are difficult to pilot effectively, yes, but even when piloted well they attain a damage output that is lesser or equal to other ships, with no capability to snipe effectively and a low armour that is a much larger issue in high level play against teams that are spamming arts or have nailed down their mortar timing. I see the Goldfish's manoeuvrability as compensated by other weaknesses beyond just the bad gun angles.

Crafeksterty:
Goldfish are very effective allready. Its not weak, it is teamwork reliant.

What would make the goldfish strong is a new heavy weapon. Just that can make some ships stronger or weaker or more viable. (depending on the recieving side)



And no, the goldfish is very fun if flown right. Alot of people really dont use the side guns and just put stuff on those sides. Seriously, ships can turn guys. Play by those rules. There is no heavy gun ship that is as fast as the goldfish. The Galleon has to show his sides, while the spire is allready slow. The goldfish is the only ship that goes fast with a front facing heavy gun.

You can actualy vary up with some style. Like a carronade fish can have pilots tools of Moonshine/kyrosine along with Impact bumbers. Making the Goldfish not only a support, but also a ramming ship that will not miss its ram how a pyramidion can miss a ram.

Or be a full support unit with a hwacha, where the hwacha is specific about taking out weapons of the other ships. And its side guns as an extra supplementary for the ally like a gattling or a carronade.

Now it sounds difficult doing this, but really no other ship can do this without putting themselves in a huge danger or waiting for the opponent to get to them.
Last time i played with a goldy competetively, i was all about making the enemy not be able to do much. But being as we are goldfish, we wont die as easily with the added meneuverability and tankiness that we have. Making it the best ship to fly in first from behind, grabbing attention, making them look where i want them to look so my ally can finish the job.

You shouldnt have the same tought as a pyramidion / junker / galleon or whatever ship when flying the goldfish. Every ship is different, utilise what they offer as much as possible.

Alistair MacBain:
I totally agree with Velvet.
I really think this one gun focus of the goldfish is what kills its use.
Yes you can get bifectas but those bifectas are quite small and quite hard to keep them up.

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