Main > General Discussion

The only mid-join as engineer philosophy

(1/6) > >>

ramjamslam:
FYI: this is not gunner vs. engineer balance talk.  The philosophy here is that mid game crew slots are filled with engineers only.

Mid joining double (and triple) gunners and mid joining as a second pilot causes a lot of conflict between players.  Many people I ask to change to engineer through Abandon Match and rejoin through match list actually do but I would prefer if they didn't have to go through the effort.  I have seen captains take double gunner builds but it is rare.

What I am suggesting is that after a match has started the damage dealing aspect (i.e. gunner) has been worked out as AI engineers are repair focused under F1 and everyone that joins while the match is already under way should fill in as engineers.

Lobbies are where you strategise: pick your class, pick your loadout.  Currently part of the lobby strategy includes expecting mid joining pilots and second gunners which cause unneeded conflict between crew members in game.  I want people to be able to assemble whatever build they want in the lobby, allowing for welcome engineer midjoiners.  Currently players are apprehensive of allowing mid joiners because of the propensity of double gunner and double pilots which disable a ships functionality more than anything else.

A mid game joining second gunner or second pilot has not caused anything other than stress for the existing engineer and aggression and blame from the captain.  GoIO would be a happier, more friendlier place if we Muse didn't allow mid joining double gunners and pilots in order to reduce unnecessary conflict between players.

Wundsalz:
I agree with ramjams discussion.
I'd like muse to introduce the following late-join restrictions:
- disallow late joining pilots for other slots than the captain slot.
- disallow late joining gunners if there's already a gunner on the ship. Alternatively fix the engineer-gunner balance so 2gunner/1engie crews actually become a viable option.

They simply can't be a good addition to the team. If a 2nd gunner happens to join my ship while I'm on the steering wheel, I tend to either rant at him or elaborate why it's better to join as an engineer midgame - depending on my mood and the late joining players level. lvl6+ gunners  and late joining pilots always get yelled at. The former because I expect him to have played 100+ matches and assume that he should know better and the latter as I think it's rather obvious and intuitive that only one guy can steer the ship at a time.
Either way none of these scenarios is pleasant for anyone - neither the existing crew and team nor the new addition.

RearAdmiralZill:

--- Quote ---I'd like muse to introduce the following late-join restrictions:
- disallow late joining pilots for other slots than the captain slot.
- disallow late joining gunners if there's already a gunner on the ship. Alternatively fix the engineer-gunner balance so 2gunner/1engie crews actually become a viable option.
--- End quote ---

If a boat has no pilot, it honestly needs one. The spot is less of a worry cause the guy commanding can still manage to coordinate with the late pilot for ai reasons. The slot restriction isn't needed, though the numerical limit is.

The two gunner not being viable "issue" is more because of just how damage works in Guns. Too often do you need a reliable repair source in two places at once, and the engie does do that much better then a gunner. That said, a gunner shouldn't be able to join mid-game if there is one already for the obvious reasons.


--- Quote --- lvl6+ gunners  and late joining pilots always get yelled at.
--- End quote ---

Ever since the achievements got easier to obtain (I forget which patch) I've been less trusting of anything under 11. Those ranks mean so little at this point, that only match # really gives a good indicator.

Thomas:
I could not encourage this more than I already do. Regrettably, players on the forums are pretty well tuned into the idea of not joining as a pilot/gunner unless there is one who is missing. What you run into is players who don't check the forums and tend to be fairly new who join as redundant roles. Some of them aren't aware you can change role without actually choosing a slot (while you're looking at the lobby of an active match). Other times it's just the quick join, which is being removed.

All I can add is for everyone to try and keep their cool and calmly explain the situation to someone who joins as a second/third gunner/pilot. I know this can be difficult, we've all been there; but it often works better than straight up flipping out on them.

redria:
Honestly... And I know I'm weird... I'm against this.
As an experienced pilot, if I ready up with an AI slot on my crew, I am readying up knowing that I risk getting another gunner or pilot, or even an engineer who only wants to shoot guns. If I am not comfortable with this scenario, I will leave and find a new lobby with people who are willing to wait for me to get a full crew. Otherwise, I will customize my ship to handle the possibility of having the less than optimal crew and see what I can do.
Flying organized experienced crews alongside organized ships is going to hand you a victory unless you are facing similarly organized and experienced opponents. This can be fun, but nowhere near as fun as taking a late join second pilot, sticking them on one of your guns, and carrying a helpless teammate to a 5-4 victory. After the match, talk to your crew about how they should try to only join as engineer then switch accordingly. If I ready up, I am accepting the challenge to carry an interesting crew to victory.

For less experienced pilots... this will do at least 2 things.
It will teach them to not ready up with AI, nor to pester people to ready up with AI.
They may eke out one of those special wins where they know they shouldn't have pulled through. The best way to get hooked on a game like this is to have those victories.

I cannot vouch for what this may do to newcomers to the game. It may be that the current joining system keeps our numbers low, and your proposed change would boost the number of players who stick around. But there is an upside to the current system that you shouldn't overlook. I am not saying that your opinion is wrong, simply pointing out that it isn't all downside. It just makes things interesting.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page