COGS Season Three, REBIRTH

[Byron Cavendish]

In the meantime there will be a great box social in that Saturday time slot to keep teams active and competing.

[Sammy B. T.]

I still recommend using the proposed rules for planetary cogs. You don't have to call it that, but the system created is fantastic. It was basically created to fix the issues from S1 and S2

Advantages
- With competent and present leadership, the system will run smoothly
- It awards rankings
- It begins at a minimum 6 matches between 12 teams which should be the closest match ups (due to the rankings) and can increase with new players
- There is no wait period if you lose (unless you are the one unlucky team in a scenario with an odd number of teams in which you have a 1 week wait)
- It has a campaign feel to it as your match outcomes affects your placement

Its certainly not casual but I don't think we're looking for casual. If Sunday Rumbles just become Saturday Rumbles and all competitive GOIO becomes is just casual single bracket elimination tournaments unattached from each other, I think we are doing ourselves a great disservice.


Btw, I should note I am not using the word casual in a derogatory sense and I appreciate the role of the Sunday Rumble. Its a simple tournament and that is the point and it does a great job at that. Saturdays can be so much more than simple.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Im pretty sure that is the intended task of this new co-op effort. While casual fights are great, we are all looking for something more "solid" and has the feeling of a league. I can't say I'd be sad to see the system of cogs go, so long as whatever it is that come from all this matches the criteria you put in, minus numbers.

[Wundsalz]

I can't say I'd be sad to see the system of cogs go, so long as whatever it is that come from all this matches the criteria you put in, minus numbers.

Actually the system is quite a bit more adjustable when it comes to the number of clans than it looks like at the first glance.
I've created a brainstorming document regarding the cogs organization a while back which has been used by qwerty to form the rules.
Here's a link to a section covering the aspect of the systems adjustability to the clan scenes size. I've only covered cases of clan scene growth, which has probably been a bit optimistic, but after all reducing the size isn't a big deal either. One could simply remove slots from the gears or cut entire cogwheels.

[Tropo]

i just want to make sure everyone knows cogs was a poor set up and i didn't feel invited. (new teams) i have had a team for over 5 or 6 months and i didn't sign up to cogs because it didn't feel like i was welcome

sammy you might be the only person that enjoy cogs and im sorry but it wasn't a community event if you are ok with not having good new completion and there are new clans that didn't sign up to this season of cogs

i only sign up because it was the only match on a saturday

main problems i have with the cogs system

over complex
planetary cogs
present leadership (passed leadership)
match ups ? who dissension is that(due to the rankings)
ranking formats
1 week wait or any wait

Tropo's view and not the whole of sacrilege

[Sammy B. T.]

Zill, If I can get those things I listed I would be happy with almost anything. The planetary cogs system is simply the best way I have encountered to achieve all of that. Maybe there are different systems and we'll end up with the Sticks Weekly Scrimmage, the Star Weekly Scrimmage, or the Heptagon Weekly Scrimmage. I just want dynamic rankings and not constant bracket tourneys.  While I do love me a bracket event, the variable time nature (ranging from one match to all afternoon) just doesn't strike me as the main competitive guns event which is why I am pushing for something beyond those.

We've got a system that could work to fill that, no reason to throw that out now that we have people actively working to make the system.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Im following you. The only reason I say the Cog's system doesn't have to be still there, is because some people find it overly complex, and lacking in ways to introduce new teams. I'm not so sure (it does have some charm, and improved the old system immensely), but regardless of what does spawn out of it all, you're right to say that "x" weekly event is not going to cut it. I'd like a season. I'd also like to see a way for new teams to join in, because we can surely all agree the scene hasn't been growing at all over the last two months.

I've never been more confident than I have now to see a large-scale event come out of this cooperative venture.

[Skrimskraw]

when a veteran team can lose to a veteran team and then be matched vs a new team the week after. something is wrong and thats not new team friendly in any respect.

[Sammy B. T.]

Which is why the old system was scrapped.

[Frogger]

It would be a shame if the entirety of the Cogs S3 plan were thrown out. I know Wundsalz and Qwerty put quite a bit of work into it. The planetary gearing system, while somewhat complex on the surface, makes it easy to add new teams into the running, as Wundsalz has explained in his overview of the system. It also gives Saturday competitive play the persistent, large-scale flavor that many of the teams are looking for as a complement to the more casual Sunday Rumble. Another advantage that Cogs has is that each team only plays one game per Saturday, instead of having to block off what might end up being an entire day for a single-elimination bracket tournament.

And, for all of its faults during the second season, Cogs has a great aesthetic and ties in really well to the general steampunk theme of GoIO. There was something really cool each week about seeing the Cogs rotate, with all of the lower Cogs jockeying for position in an attempt to get their shot at the top Cog. With the event production skills of Urz and Leto, I bet some really cool graphics and animations for the cogs standings could easily be made.

Finally, Cogs is the oldest, most storied large-scale competitive event in GoIO presently. Why dispose of this tradition? There were flaws, to be sure, especially in the upcomers’ cog, but these have largely been fixed in the new system. It seems like quite a waste to simply discard this system, which has already gone extensive scrutiny and been met with general approval by the community. Now that much of the former divide between certain elements of the community has been healed, it’s a better time than ever to move forward with it, with input and cooperation from all.

[Tropo]

not sure if you heard me this like 5th i talked with sammy about how bad the planetary cogs system is

most games that have competitive scene have ladder or bracket no reason to make up some crap about 'planetary cogs'

make is simple so we can have a more competitive league of team and grown the community

the point that you have continue to ignore my view is pretty rude


tropo's view and not the whole of sacrilege

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Think the planetary system was interesting and worth trying out. I was curious to see it in action.

At the very least, it was much more interesting and fun than the scrim system which Muse pushed.

[Feast on Thrones]

If it were up to me (though it is not) I would do the competition in the following way:

We want the competition to be community led and so with that in mind we want to keep as much of the community playing as possible each week. So the competition starts off with a round robin. Every team plays every team. This will probably take between 8-12 weeks depending on the number of teams and how many games can be fit into each viewing period. The games would be best of two in this round robin stage. This is an attempt for people not only to win matches but also to play with the minimal loses possible as victory could be down to the number of kills and deaths. If there is a 1-1 situation the winner is determined on the amount of kills that have been achieved in the past two games. If there is a still a draw after kills have been totted up then both teams take a draw. During this period you get 0 points for a loss 1 for a draw and 2 for a win.

After every team has played every team the scores for each team are collected. The points that have been gathered from the round robin stage now seed the teams in an order from 1 to whatever #. The Team in position 1 who had the highest points throughout the round robin period now play the team at the bottom of the table who had the least points. The team in position 2 play the team who were second last and so on and so forth. The downside of this is that there have to be an equal number of teams, so sign ups come on a first come first served basis. Unless somebody can think of a clever way of incorporating an odd number of teams into this system that is fair of course.
This round is a best of 3. So there is a clear winner. The winner of match 1 vs 12 proceed up the table and compete more as does the winner of 2 vs 11 and so on and so forth. The competition now looks more pyramid like with more teams being removed form the running of becoming champion. But it is not over for the teams who lose. The losers of match 1 vs 12 and 2 vs 11 etc etc play each other. And this continuos so you have a pyramid of matches going downwards from the centre line. These run up matches can continue in each bracket meaning that you have more teams competing week in and week out, giving it that feeling  of a community run event still. So hopefully by the end of the competition most teams have been playing consistently, and the whole ranking order is done from the Champions in position 1 to those that didn't do so well at the bottom with everyone in between having been catered for also.

The Final will be a best of 5.

The game time limit will be 20 minutes in the round robin stage. Its a real challenge for teams to win matches but also not concede many deaths and I think is an interesting dynamic especially with this small time constraint. Similarly to the CESports rules if there are not 3 kills before this mark then you have 2 minutes of overtime, afterwards it is a draw in that match if no kills have been achieved and you move on. If there is a kill in this overtime but not reaching 3 then the team with the most kills wins. If 20 minutes expires and you have 3 or more kills then that team is the victor. If it is 3-3 then there is overtime and afterwards the team with the most kills wins.

The second competition stage has a 30 minute running time but the same rules regarding overtime and who wins in scenarios when the full kill limit has not been achieved. The final also has this same running time.

I have thought about this in some detail but not in a huge amount. I really would like some way of keeping people involved throughout the stage so it doesn't just become this very elite model that previous Cogs were. I would like to know any feedback that you have or any questions you may have, or if anything didn't make sense.

Obviously the new competitive scene is not up to me, this is my personal opinion on a format that could work. But if we could agree with something then that would be awesome. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Skrimskraw]

the planetary system still makes it possible for a vet team to lose vs. a vet team and then fight a new team the week after. that hasnt changed. there are just more split up cogs, meaning some teams might never face eachother.

cogs might have been the first and most persistent thing. but thats only because there were so few teams back then, that no one dared even think about splitting the competitive scene. more teams have been created today, and the overall history of cogs is a disaster of bad management and terrible esport potential, it wont get the support from the majority of teams due to the fact they dont want to stall progress of actually making something that has been tested over and over in countless of esports games.

if cogs is history then I will remember it as something terrible, I could go on for hours, but I wont. Keep defending it all you want, I just want to see something made proper.

[Sammy B. T.]

Well they would have to lose two weeks minimum in a row to have dropped that far to teams ranked below them assuming they began this steak on the lowest spot.  Also what system do you propose that would ensure a very team never faces a new team?  Bracket tourneys definitely don't.