The Cogs Season 3: The Clocktower of Edgar Lusse

[Urz]

I'll flesh this idea a bit since you asked.

As a hierarchical structure, Cogs has five tiers:

Tier 1 (1 team)
Tier 2 (3)
Tier 3 (4)
Tier 4 (3)
Tier 5 (1)

A 12 team single elimination tournament would be four rounds. Four teams would be seeded into the quarterfinals (either based on last season's results or randomly). The non-seeded eight teams would play a round for the remaining four quarterfinals spots. The teams who get knocked out in that round would be placed into tiers 4 and 5.

The eight teams in the quarterfinals play, four move on to the semifinals and the four who lose get seeded into tier 3.

The four teams in the semifinals play, two move on the finals and the two who lose get seeded into tier 2.

The two remaining teams play in the finals, the winner gets tier 1, second place gets the A1 spot in tier 2, getting the first chance to fight for tier 1 again.

So while seeding into S3 this way may not be completely non-random, it would reduce the random variance significantly. Initial bracket seeds being based on last season would give the previous top finishers at least a tier 3 seed, but still require them to fight for a better one. One team in the bottom four would get the short end of the stick, but other than that the seeding would be entirely results-based.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Or we could just say...dibs on champion!

Ha, beat you all!

[Sammy B. T.]

To Urz

Going to go ahead and repost the image.


I must admit, at a glance that does seem a lot more workable than I initially thought, however an issue arises from the fact that the tiers in cogs aren't as simple as they may appear.

As we were saying seeding from the last season isn't overly feasible due to the fact that the competitive scene is so different. So the 4 randoms that get seeded beyond the outer ring do get quite a leg up. The tier three group you set up is really more accurately seen as two tiers. TAB 1 is two consecutive wins away from being the champ where TBA 2 is four consecutive wins away from the champ. In fact TAB is basically better than A3 and just as good as A2.

With Cogs, different spots in the tiers are still noticeably better or worse which is the idea. A single bracket tourney, while awesome, would require exhaustive matches to fairly determine the placement in the tiers as you would need so many secondary brackets for each area. Even using the simple one you proposed we still got 11 matches, meaning this would probably need to be a two day affair that still has a lot of luck in the seeding.

To Gilder,
If anything, the Ducks would get to call dibs!

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Pfft, you guys were busy quacking about seeds and other stuff. Lost your chance to call dibs!

[Urz]

With Cogs, different spots in the tiers are still noticeably better or worse which is the idea. A single bracket tourney, while awesome, would require exhaustive matches to fairly determine the placement in the tiers as you would need so many secondary brackets for each area. Even using the simple one you proposed we still got 11 matches, meaning this would probably need to be a two day affair that still has a lot of luck in the seeding.

As I said, it wouldn't be a perfect solution and not completely non-random, but it still allows for a lot less variance than say, splitting the entrants into two groups and randomly seeding from there. The tournament matches wouldn't need to be run consecutively (that would be silly), and with four referees could be run in four rounds. That's one "match" longer than a normal Cogs day.

While the TAB placements would allow for a potentially quicker ascension given a win-streak, that discounts the tiers being seeded based on results. If you're in A3 playing playing the team in TAB2, you would be playing against an opponent who did worse in the tournament, which gives odds at you being the stronger of the two. You're "playing down".

With less than two weeks until Cogs it's probably too late to add something like this anyways. More a thought exercise in trying to work the insanity of the Cogs S3 system.

[Sammy B. T.]

Ah yes, since the cogs format doesn't fit into a simple single elimination bracket it must be insanity. While obviously 11 matches wouldn't have to be done at the same time, you still run into a major issue of teams having to wait a long time for their next match. Teams take Cogs matches quite seriously and thus they often last longer than your average competitive scrim.

At the end of the day, this is a very minor thing. Cogs is an 8 week event and things will change throughout the course of it.

[Urz]

My opinions on the Cogs system were not a result of this thought exercise nor it not being a bracket style tournament.

I'm also not sure how you can criticize my idea for requiring 11 matches, when yours requires 12. It could easily be split across two Saturdays the same way.

[Sammy B. T.]

Cause you then get a lot of people who don't get to do anything if split over a few weeks. My plan has every team get to play every week and it gets a cog spin by the second week and quite fair points when it begins on the third.

[Byron Cavendish]

Has anyone seen qwerty lately?

[James T. Kirk]

Awww..
He didn't get cold feet before the big day, did he?

[Mod Josie]

Check the forums for Letonator's post. He's taken stewardship of the Cogs.

[Skrimskraw]

Check the forums for Letonator's post. He's taken stewardship of the Cogs.

what the hell is going on now?

[Coldcurse]

Check the forums for Letonator's post. He's taken stewardship of the Cogs.

what the hell is going on now?

I don't know

[Piemanlives]

Check the forums for Letonator's post. He's taken stewardship of the Cogs.

what the hell is going on now?

I don't know

Essentially it was decided that Leto was to take over the Cogs due to Qwerty's disappearance, however Leto felt he is unable to fulfill that role as he isn't well known enough in the community, as well as the amount of confusion, baggage, etc. currently associated with S3 of The Cogs, so as it stands there will not be a third season, Urz is currently going to begin The Saturday Box Social which will be running Saturdays 4pm est as a straight bracket while he and Leto work on a proposal for a community league.

[Byron Cavendish]

yep.