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CP Neutralisation Mechanics

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Thomas:
My second idea was just for simplicity. I think it wouldn't really be worth the effort the apply the ranges or point values for certain ships. Some ships being harder to remove is mostly about their captain and crew. A good squid can be a monster to destroy in the hands of a great crew, where a galleon can go down in seconds with a terrible one. It's less about the ship choice and more about the player's ability.

If a player fears they might die and leave the point anyways to prevent damage, you're still in a good position to start recapping the point. You can either start capping it and wait for them to reenter in an effort to block, and destroy them then, or simply destroy them and let them respawn. It could lead to some interesting strategies.


I still feel the easiest adjustment that can be made to get desired results is simply to adjust the timer. By making it easier to convert, you'll have a little more back and forth; since teams will have less time to return and prevent a conversion.

Zyem:

--- Quote from: Thomas on December 14, 2013, 10:44:17 pm ---I still feel the easiest adjustment that can be made to get desired results is simply to adjust the timer. By making it easier to convert, you'll have a little more back and forth; since teams will have less time to return and prevent a conversion.

--- End quote ---
As I mentioned before, this still leads to the possibility that there are 2 ships that are always on the point, never die, destroy the opponent repeatedly, but still lose 650-0, simply because they didn't get there first.

Tell me, Mr Thomas, what good is a short timer, if you are unable to start it?

Bear in mind that in my previous hypothetical, B would eventually lose the point if the timer was ever started, regardless of its length, due to attrition. However, as explained, the timer is never started because B always have a ship on the point, preventing it being captured by R.

If my hypothetical isn't clear by the way, let me know as I'm happy to make an animation to demonstrate it.

The current mechanics allow a situation where the team actually defending the point doesn't own it and can't capture it, even with a 0 second timer! I'm sure everyone agrees that shouldn't be the case :)

EDIT: By the way, great point about the skill of the crew having more impact than the ship type.

Thomas:
If there is a situation where there is constantly ships being on the point, then the probably deserve to keep that point. This is more for 2v2, but I can't remember a time when there wasn't at least a few seconds with them off the point. It would start to convert, but of course they'd continue gaining points the whole time, and then they'd remove the enemy, and gain those few seconds back. It takes quite a while to convert to neutral.

In 3v3 and 4v4 things get a little more complicated. With the sheer number of ships, there are situations where there's always at least one on the point. The current solution is just having more teamwork and coordinating the kills to give the largest gap from respawn to returning to the point. Once the hotfix goes in, some of the spawns should change and make it not as easy for ships to keep rushing back in. (I haven't looked at the spawns myself sadly. D; )


A reward for killing enemies on the point would certainly help this situation, but then it starts turning into more of a DM. If it were to be done so, it would have to work for both teams evenly. So killing a ship on the team that captured the point would move it towards your side on the gauge, but dying to them would move it back towards their color (by however many seconds).

Crafeksterty:
How do you know if a short timer cant help the attacking team capture it before the defending team spawn back?

The deal with king of the hill is being on it not letting anyone else capture it until you are pushed off or eliminated. Its... really just simple.

A Short timer will not only reward being on the point while the others are just outside the border of the point. It is alot more threatning leaving the point in all.
And for 2 blue ships to destroy 1 red as the other 1 red is coming in, the short timer will atleast pass thru 3 seconds before that other red reaches the point to block it and then die eventualy because it is 2 v 1.


Todays, is a very large timer, punishing the act of killing ships because they will come right back. Instead, the best tactic now to capture a point is to disable them outside the capture zone.
And that is though.

With a very short timer, the blue team that captures the point can have a ship ram and stop the red team ship that flies in to try and block the point and that will be rewarded because they got an extra 2 or 3 or much more time for that one ship that stood on the point to capture.


--- Quote ---If there is a situation where there is constantly ships being on the point, then the probably deserve to keep that point.
--- End quote ---
That is king of the hill.

Zyem:

--- Quote ---If there is a situation where there is constantly ships being on the point, then the probably deserve to keep that point.
--- End quote ---

I will now describe a match where there are constantly 2 R ships on the point and they lose 650-0.

Match starts.
1) B1 and B2 are squids. They rush the point and capture it before R1 and R2 show up. They now 100% own the the point.

2) R1 and R2 arrive and focus fire B1. B1 is destroyed, leaving one B ship on the point and 2 R ships on the point. The timer is not started due to B2's presence. B owns 100% of the point.

3) B2 then uses their pilot tools, 2 engineers camping the hull and the terrain to avoid being destroyed by R. The timer is not started due to B2's presence. There is 1 B ship and 2 R ships on the point. B owns 100% of the point.

4) B1 respawns and rushes to the point. They get to the point while B2 is alive. The timer is not started due to B being present. There are 2 B ships and 2 R ships on the point. B owns 100% of the point.

5) B2 gets destroyed soon after B1 arrives, leaving one B ship on the point and 2 R ships on the point. The timer is not started due to B1's presence. B owns 100% of the point.

6) GOTO 3 unless score is 650-0. Switch B1 and B2 around.

7) B wins 650-0.

R Kills: 22
R Deaths: 0
R Point Presence: 98%
R Point Ship Presence Average: 2

B Kills: 0
B Deaths: 22
B Point Presence: 100%
B Point Ship Presence Average: 1.1

In this match, R has the dominate point position. They are acting defensively, but are actually trying to attack the point. B is acting aggresively, but is actually defending the point. This is completely backwards.

Feel free to plug any timer value you like in, you will see that it makes no difference. The timer is never started, so it doesn't matter how short it is. Make it shorter, it takes B less time to establish their win position. Make it long enough for R to get their before it is captured and the game would end at a time out with no-one fully capturing the point.

Making an argument based on changing the hypothesis (such as B getting totally removed from the point to allow your short timer to come into effect) is moving the goalposts. Explain how my hypothetical situation is a fair outcome without changing B and R's behaviour.

Given my suggestion, R "defending" the point would eventually cause to go neutral. They would still lose if they didn't change their behaviour, but it would only be 70-0. This reflects who captured the point much better. Extending it to also make R kills increase point ownership for R would cause them to win.

At a minimum, the point ownership should move to whichever team has most ships on it. So R would eventually capture the point because they can maintain 2 ships on it while B can only maintain 1. For example, if there is one ship of each team on the point, it doesn't move (50-50 balance). If there are 2 R and 1 B, it moves towards R (66-33 balance). Capturing the point should simply slow down the timer in the owning teams favour by counting as, say, 50% of a ship.

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