Art meta is boring

[GeoRmr]

That really doesn't strike me as outrageously high especially since you were using Lesmok, an ammo type that will functionally never be used on an artemis.

Lesmok artemis on dunes can be extremely devastating from the southern spawn and is a valid ammo type for the artemis especially if used to counter more artemis sniping ships.

These screen shots are not a representation of actual combat situations where for example I'd expect an artemis pilot to be flying closer to the sky limit rather than the map floor initially, assuming they were then popped by a lumberjack there is an extremely long descent before they manage to loose their arc.

They also do not take into account the fact that your ship would be bouncing slightly higher from the floor that the absolute bottom and would be pitching back due to the captain beginning an ascent.

[ramjamslam]

That really doesn't strike me as outrageously high especially since you were using Lesmok, an ammo type that will functionally never be used on an artemis.

Lesmok artemis on dunes can be extremely devastating from the southern spawn and is a valid ammo type for the artemis. these screen shots do not take into account the fact that your ship would be bouncing slightly higher from the floor that the absolute bottom and would be pitching back due to the captain beginning an ascent.

Sacrilege just won the sunday rumble using double mobulas fully loaded up with lesmok on Battle of the Dunes.  We were able to merc/artemis the Gent's mobula from outside their artemis' range.

[GeoRmr]

That really doesn't strike me as outrageously high especially since you were using Lesmok, an ammo type that will functionally never be used on an artemis.

Lesmok artemis on dunes can be extremely devastating from the southern spawn and is a valid ammo type for the artemis. these screen shots do not take into account the fact that your ship would be bouncing slightly higher from the floor that the absolute bottom and would be pitching back due to the captain beginning an ascent.

Sacrilege just won the sunday rumble using double mobulas fully loaded up with lesmok on Battle of the Dunes.  We were able to merc/artemis the Gent's mobula from outside their artemis' range.

Ducks have some sort of silly cult belief that only one ammo type works for each light gun and that gunners are useless - idk why huehue =P

It's interesting to note that once within lesmok only range for the artemis, projectile expansion has taken effect giving around the same aoe as burst (something I also encourage you test in sandbox) with less ammo but with a faster rate of fire lesmok artemis is not too far behind dps wise either.

[Sammy B. T.]

If you're fighting at a range where you need Lesmok Artemis, you would probably be better suited using Heavy Flaks, Lumberjacks and Mercs. Regardless thats hardly an amazing vertical range and would be difficult shots if you're fighting a moving target or a ship that isn't a spire.

[GeoRmr]

If you're fighting at a range where you need Lesmok Artemis, you would probably be better suited using Heavy Flaks, Lumberjacks and Mercs. Regardless thats hardly an amazing vertical range and would be difficult shots if you're fighting a moving target or a ship that isn't a spire.

Lesmok artemis at that range is able to disable lumberjacks right up until they're smacking the floor because the artemis can stay in arc for too long, something that wouldn't be a problem because the lj would be disabled, - that's kind of my point (You'd probably put a mercury on there too for good measure any way)

What's easier to land shots, lesmok artemis from a stationary ship at 1800m or heavy flak from a moving galleon at 1800m?

Also, galleons are bigger targets than spires, even if they do move. Tricky shots, but with projectile expansion not too hard imho. Lj fish for an opponent? If they be weaving and dodging enough for your shots to miss, I can tell you that their gunner is not gonna be hitting you.

Edit: Wait a minute, didn't the whole artemis thing piss off a load of gents (and ducks?) because their lumberjack flak use was all in vain against them?

[ramjamslam]

That really doesn't strike me as outrageously high especially since you were using Lesmok, an ammo type that will functionally never be used on an artemis.

Lesmok artemis on dunes can be extremely devastating from the southern spawn and is a valid ammo type for the artemis. these screen shots do not take into account the fact that your ship would be bouncing slightly higher from the floor that the absolute bottom and would be pitching back due to the captain beginning an ascent.

Sacrilege just won the sunday rumble using double mobulas fully loaded up with lesmok on Battle of the Dunes.  We were able to merc/artemis the Gent's mobula from outside their artemis' range.

also for clarity and historical sake, I will say that I am talking about the final game from sunday rumble 19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7EjTdS29XM

[Thomas]

The further apart the ships are, the less difference height makes. With normal ammo, the artemis can hit something a little over 190 meters above it at max range (a little over 390 meters above it when using lesmok with the new max range). Since the angle is fixed, the closer you get to the ship, the less vertical distance it can cover.

In a sniping match, range will always trump the turning angle. Even something like a field gun can cover a huge area when the ships are far apart.


When you're up nice and close (400 meters), the bottom of your ship needs to be at least 70 meters above their gun to avoid being hit. Get to 100 meters and you just have to be 18 meters above their gun. Of course you have to keep in mind that things are always more complicated. Ships are volumes, not just points in space. The mobula for instance has it's guns at the top of the ship, not the center or near the bottom, giving them a little vertical boost. Not to mention the height of the spire.

All maps also have varying distances between the floor and ceiling of the map. Terrain factors like hills, valleys, and objects make a difference. Doing some testing I found that from the deck of my ship to about the bottom of the map on dunes was between 450 and 600 meters. Probably a little more and a lot less in other areas on that map.

[Crafeksterty]

Exactly that. Dunes really has an incredible difficulty of fighting snipers. You almost have to go with sniper weapons. Look at that link Ramjam posted + community chat where i say how my loadout didnt help the full map splitt tactic because i had nothing to accomodate the range.

I know this is off topic but i would love to see alot more rubble in the ground. Much like west side of the big towering engine thing but AROUND where the terrain in the middle goes downwards.  Just big enough rubble that can be used as cover.

[awkm]

Proposed Artemis tweaks are on dev app.  Looking forward to testing and feedback.  Please remember to keep dev app activity to the dev app forums boards.

[Sammy B. T.]

Awkm, I gotta say, the the balloons you added to the missles that make them arc up after you fire them are really interesting but I am not sure if you needed to added 400 impact damage to the shot. I mean the 60% fire chance seemed like enough.

[ramjamslam]

Just in case... I hope everyone can tell that this is all just for laughs and not really going to happen:

Awkm, I gotta say, the the balloons you added to the missles that make them arc up after you fire them are really interesting but I am not sure if you needed to added 400 impact damage to the shot. I mean the 60% fire chance seemed like enough.

lol, In the mythical world where this happens though it has totally nerfed the artemis because I can just pop artemis balloons out of the sky with my carronade as they come at me - dropping the artemis bullets to the ground.  Carronade is back to being OP.

[Omniraptor]

I would be so down for an ammo type that replaces shatter damage with impact damage.

[zlater75@hotmail.com]

I'm just a stupid gunner but i don't understand issues with the artemis fully. Yes as destroying components and trifecting the hull it can be very annoying on the receiving end, like a carrofish against your balloon if you're captain. But it's also about how it feels in use. There ARE countering moves and options 
I agree with sammy it should not need a radical nerf at all but at most a minute or very slight change in projectile speed as well. It's a rocket after all? I'd like to see flames added like when you shoot gat with incend to the artemis animation. It can shoot long range because it is a long range weapon yes. The rocket won't drop like bullets. I like that the weapons need counterweapons and makes other weapons useful. Like lj and merc against artemisjunker. In a map when a brawler ship or a good squid gets close you don't do much with the artemis side because you don't have time.
I'm afraid if weapons just keep getting mostly nerfed down they won't feel like weapons much more.
And it's fun to challenge yourself as gunner to try take out a specific component or go and smash a artjunker up close or be able on the junker to stay alive while a 360 gets you on the close range weapons while barely being alive and surviving just before the other enemy gets there.
Don't remove satisfaction for gunners in the weapons or make radical changes. Atm i'd like that energy be focused on other things instead like coop tweaks and spawnpoint tweaks on some maps. The more time a weapon gets the better we know exactly what is needed.

[GeoRmr]

Proposed Artemis tweaks are on dev app.  Looking forward to testing and feedback.  Please remember to keep dev app activity to the dev app forums boards.

Where is this board?

[Thomas]

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/board,45.0.html

I believe you need to have the Dev App to be able to view the board. If you have the Dev App, and can't see the board, you should email feedback@musegames.com or keyvias@musegames.com

If you don't have the dev app, you can use one of the emails above and ask for a key, and also join the Guns of Icarus Online Experimental Crew:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoIEC

Where you should be able to get a Dev App key there.

Like Awkm has pointed out, discussions about the changes are to be kept in that section of the forum, as they are still under testing and subject to change.