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Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

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The Djinn:

--- Quote from: Piemanlives on December 09, 2013, 11:41:29 pm ---I personally like the idea of this, for instance after death the game chooses a spawn within a ring at x distance from enemy ships should an allied vessel be within x proximity of an enemy vessel, should an allied vessel not be within x distance of an enemy vessel the game chooses a spawn within a ring x distance of an allied vessel.
--- End quote ---

Basically, yes. Although I'd suggest the formula take the form of "Within X distance, but no closer than Y distance," to prevent spawns within immediate proximity.

So, say, between (X to Y) distance if an ally is in combat, or within (2X to 2Y) if an ally is not in combat. Numbers subject to adjustment: this is just a formula that shows the idea better.

Thomas:
4v4 have always been pretty chaotic though, but I can see it getting even more so with ship getting back into the fight directly on spawn.


The only issue I have with most of these ideas is that while it does solve the brawler builds spawning right on your face, it doesn't stop a long range build from spawning within easy shooting range of you. So by fixing the brawler on mah face issue, it'd be promoting more long range builds, making it more difficult for the brawl builds. Since they'd spawn further away (like normal) and the long range ships can shoot them as they approach. Where if the long range is taken out, they can spawn in a prime location and snipe away.


The issue with creating 'bases' or spawn zones for each team is that it could promote more camping (see: canyon ambush). One team almost always camps near their spawn locations and forces the other team to engage them. If the camping team is taken out, they can still spawn on their face, where if the attacking team is taken out, it's a long fly back.

I can't really see an ideal solution for this. Something that might work is making the respawn take longer depending on how close they are to their team spawn. If they're very close, make it take longer, while if it's pretty far off, make it take shorter. Then you can set the team spawns in such a way as they can't instantly engage across the spawns. This means if the attackers were killed by the campers, they'd be able to get back their faster. While if the campers were killed, they wouldn't be able to instantly spawn on their head. Balancing it in such a way as it would take about the same time for both teams to reach the location.

So if team A is 20 seconds from their spawn, and team B is 5 seconds from their spawn; Team A might have a 10 second respawn where team B might have a 25 second respawn. This would promote teams to engage further from their spawn. The team 'bases' should also reduce the amount of spawning on heads or in ideal sniping locations right from the get go.

The Djinn:

--- Quote from: Thomas on December 10, 2013, 12:20:57 am ---The only issue I have with most of these ideas is that while it does solve the brawler builds spawning right on your face, it doesn't stop a long range build from spawning within easy shooting range of you. So by fixing the brawler on mah face issue, it'd be promoting more long range builds, making it more difficult for the brawl builds. Since they'd spawn further away (like normal) and the long range ships can shoot them as they approach. Where if the long range is taken out, they can spawn in a prime location and snipe away.
--- End quote ---

Which is the strength of long range, and something that's always been the case. Close range ships need to close the distance: it's a bigger problem on, say, Dunes, but I'd say that map already has a bunch of issues.

By having a maximum and minimum distance there's still some spawn luck involved, but you can keep spawns within realistic ranges: not 2600m on the other side of the map, but also not 30m away and right behind you.


--- Quote ---The issue with creating 'bases' or spawn zones for each team is that it could promote more camping (see: canyon ambush). One team almost always camps near their spawn locations and forces the other team to engage them. If the camping team is taken out, they can still spawn on their face, where if the attacking team is taken out, it's a long fly back.
--- End quote ---

This is why I recommend doing away with "base" spawn zones after the game has begun: it's more fair if teams don't have that home turf spawn advantage.

Captain Smollett:
I think we should have a bit more discussion about increasing the spawn timer.

Thomas:
The main cause for increasing the timer (and leaving everything else the same) is to make it less likely that ships will respawn on top of you. I think the current respawn is 20 seconds or so if you're fast (or longer if you're like me and forget that you have to manually spawn). This lets the team that killed more time to move away from the area/shake their spots and/or kill the remaining teammate.

The downside of course is that it makes the gameplay feel a lot slower. Being killed sucks. Having to wait 20+ seconds sucks harder. Generally the surviving ships are going to stay near that area until they beat down the remaining ship. Which means that you'd have the make the respawn timer pretty long to give them time to do so. They could of course run away, but players tend not to do that. They have the advantage, and as long as one of the enemy is alive, they're more likely to be spotted, giving away their location on the map. Running away also tends to open up their blindspots, and they'll take a lot of damage from the survivor (maybe).

In general it's not that bad of an idea, as you usually couldn't get back to your ally in time to save them under the previous random spawn system anyways. Unless you got super lucky, or they ran away. I do think that the added time of staring at the map waiting for the timer to count down would turn a lot of players off from the game though. And it would make that first kill that much more important.

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