Game Duration in the Competitive Scene

[Imagine]

Speaking generally of all events, I think at a certain point ones has to put the matches before the stream otherwise one doesn't get to stream anything. During the Flotsam we ran into this problem once when the Gents and the Merry Men ran one of the most brutal sniping matches I have ever seen in Guns of Icarus. It was Battle on the Dunes day so this was something we were aware could easily happen. After 30 minutes we decided to switch the stream and begin the next match. We actually even got to get back to the MM/Gent game and watch their climax and finale. We were lucky things lined up to allow this.

Now I can understand times may be a bit unpredictable with the BO3 system, however I think that would be even more incentive to respect people's time more than the stream. We're all playing a video game so we have to remember that time commitments to this game will be low for most players.

Wasn't really an option. Both matches on the other side of the bracket had finished before the 2nd match in question was halfway done. Even if the stream would've switched over to one of the other matches, the end result would've been the same, Rhinos/Gents take the same amount of time and the two teams waiting would've had to bow out.

[Byron Cavendish]

Okay, but still I'm sensing your attitude here is insinuating that we as snipers should be adhering to a specific perception of how to play the game. Which in turn is insinuating you want to dictate how we play.  Just because they finish their games fast and first means that we should to, or that is the correct way to compete? Sounds very discriminatory. You don't hear us saying "they should snipe and play their games longer". We are both exhibiting all the different styles of this game and it's diversity. Like I said previously, if you want to just cast brawling short games on your stream, fine, make that clear to us so we can bow out. I'm not going to impede your production, I want it to succeed. But at the same time we aren't going to compromise our style. I don't feel I should have to defend how we compete any more than any other style should have to.

[Sammy B. T.]

Wasn't really an option. Both matches on the other side of the bracket had finished before the 2nd match in question was halfway done. Even if the stream would've switched over to one of the other matches, the end result would've been the same, Rhinos/Gents take the same amount of time and the two teams waiting would've had to bow out.

Oh, yall had both sides going at the same time? My misunderstanding.

[Imagine]

Okay, but still I'm sensing your attitude here is insinuating that we as snipers should be adhering to a specific perception of how to play the game. Which in turn is insinuating you want to dictate how we play.  Just because they finish their games fast and first means that we should to, or that is the correct way to compete? Sounds very discriminatory. You don't hear us saying "they should snipe and play their games longer". We are both exhibiting all the different styles of this game and it's diversity. Like I said previously, if you want to just cast brawling short games on your stream, fine, make that clear to us so we can bow out. I'm not going to impede your production, I want it to succeed. But at the same time we aren't going to compromise our style. I don't feel I should have to defend how we compete any more than any other style should have to.

First of all, my last comment wasn't directed at you. Secondly, in every post in this thread so far that I've made in here I've repeatedly said that I don't blame you guys for playing the way you want. My last statement we directly in response to Sammy's previous post, and has nothing to do with you.

I'm done explaining that so stop purposefully misreading for the sake of making yourself look like some sort of martyr.

 

Wasn't really an option. Both matches on the other side of the bracket had finished before the 2nd match in question was halfway done. Even if the stream would've switched over to one of the other matches, the end result would've been the same, Rhinos/Gents take the same amount of time and the two teams waiting would've had to bow out.

Oh, yall had both sides going at the same time? My misunderstanding.

Yeah, ever since one week we had like 7 teams sign up and we tried to cast ever match only have it run waaaay long which no one liked, we've gone to having matches run simultaneously with the 2nd set getting recorded and put onto youtube later.

[Byron Cavendish]

As it was vague to me who you were referencing, I was assuming something negative was applied. It seemed like you were implying our game was responsible for multiple teams bowing out, and that was a fault we are responsible for. If that was not what you were implying than my mistake.

I want to make this perfectly clear, I'm not trying to be a martyr. I'm just really tired of the complaints, and the theory crafting of how to make our play style "viewable". This exhaustion has lead me to believe that instead of having to discuss and defend my team's style, it is better to just not compete in specific events where our style is largely viewed as a negative. Like I said, I like your production, and I want people to watch it. If they don't like watching how we play, than we won't play in the Rumble. If it isn't an issue, than we will. That's not martyrdom, that's sportsmanship, responsible accountability. I'm just not going to defend my team's style anymore, nor change our style.

[Imagine]

As it was vague to me who you were referencing, I was assuming something negative was applied. It seemed like you were implying our game was responsible for multiple teams bowing out, and that was a fault we are responsible for. If that was not what you were implying than my mistake.

I literally said this https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2825.msg48371.html#msg48371 a page ago. Yeah, some others may have somewhat implied that it's the team's fault that everything went so long, but that's not my thought behind it.

[Urz]

Hour-long games are bad for the competitive scene, I don't think there's even an argument to be made otherwise. It puts tremendous stress on the casters as well as the players in the game, makes scheduling impractical, and stretches the patience of the viewers. While a best of three format may exacerbate this to some extent, this is not a problem unique to the Rumble and has the potential to happen in every event you will play in.

That being said, the responsibility of the teams who participate in the event is to win. It is not their responsibility to manage game length or optimize entertainment value for spectators. Those responsibilities fall onto Muse (to improve the game's balance), and myself (to organize events which properly function despite flaws in the game's balance). If a best of three set is three hours long, the event is not functioning properly and the rule-set needs to be adjusted.

It is however important to adjust the rules in a way that doesn't upset the balance of the event, in the same way it's important for the developer to maintain the balance of the mechanics themselves. Long-range conservative play should be just as viable as close-range aggressive play. The problem is not that teams are sniping. The problem is that those games are extending the length of the event too much.

The first change I'm going to make is to remove Canyon Ambush from the map pool. Canyon has historically been one of the problem maps in terms of game length, and with the recent additional cloud cover, even games between two aggressive teams can take upwards of 30 minutes as they circle around the map unable to engage. This will also remove the possibility of the "perfect storm" scenario we had last weekend of two sniping teams facing off with both Canyon and Fjords in their set.

In regards to additional rules regarding game length, it's in consideration. As I said, it is important to maintain the balance and limit the influence on teams choosing particular styles of play. Speaking on time limits, a simple "who's ahead" check bestows a large advantage to the team who wins the first engagement, and favours ships with more speed/maneuverability who would be able to evade for the rest of the game. This is one of the reasons a "fencing-style" rule granting priority wouldn't work either.

[Piemanlives]

If I'm correct that means Dunes, Fjords, and Canyons are out of the map pool unless we've decided to leave in dunes and Fjords following the conclusion of Anvalan Conflict which ended last week, if that's not the case the only maps I believe are left are Rumble, and Duel At Dawn which severely limits the map pool for the Sunday Rumble.

[Urz]

The map pool as of now is as follows: Battle on the Dunes, Duel at Dawn, Northern Fjords, Paritan Rumble.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Pfft, no Canyon...glad I'm not able to make Rumbles.

There should be no way canyon matches are taking that long what with all the clouds Muse overloaded into it. Just wait for a cloud, ride it in, win. If teams can't do that, sudden death it. Should be no problem with putting in a time limit on matches.

[zlater75@hotmail.com]

Someone mentioned a map timelimit would be a good option, but also to let the match get played to end normally without restriction.

Well.. if there would be a timelimit would this mean a 3-2 or 1-0 situation would mean a win? 5 kills no longer the win?
I still think a referee that would observe time vs actions could be an alternative. Another alternative would be to have a koth tournament, which would be pretty interesting 

Might not agree with all ideas but i do believe we have to try manage with what is decided and offered to us. Good that all sides get heard though and it isn't a recent problem, yet we are still here and have survived. I do believe we should help Urz in some way so he can get the job done in the future.

[Skrimskraw]

I dont like the idea of canyon being taken out. although it might take longer than other matches, it is also the map with the most intense situation for teams.

[Byron Cavendish]

Canyons is one of my favorite maps, but this is the right decision. Hopefully it isn't permanent, and Muse realizes they went way overboard with the clouds. As Papa said, it doesn't make sniping harder, it just makes it slower.

[-Mad Maverick-]

NO MORE RAMP IT??!?!?!

[Wundsalz]

The first change I'm going to make is to remove Canyon Ambush from the map pool.

I don't like this decision. In my opinion the influence of the map on the match duration is marginal - at least in comparison to other other maps like dunes or fjords.
Frankly I don't see this adjustment could possibly prevent a future encounter similar to our last match to have the same destructive effect as last sunday. Please search for a better solution!