Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Buff the Junker
Squash:
Hey Junker Captain, I've got a suggestion for you:
Get your crap off the freaking stairs, there aren't even handrails, you're a floating OSHA magnet.
Captain Smollett:
--- Quote from: awkm on March 15, 2013, 01:18:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on March 15, 2013, 03:55:03 am ---These were numbers taken from 1.13 when explosive damage had a .5 multiplyer to armor. Arrow was just using these numbers since he had them on hand. Using heavy flak was a really convenient way to measure durability before since it broke armor and hull. Now heavy flak barely scratches armor and doesn't make a fair comparison when showing a ship that has a lot of armor to one that doesn't. A comparison on dps with a light flak and gattling would surely shed light on the fragility of the junker compared to other ships like the goldfish. A goldfish has 1100 hull and 400 armor. It takes two clips of light flak hitting a goldfish without armor to kill it. But the armor gets rebuilt in 4 seconds or less, so it normally takes many more tries than that. A Junker hull drops in one clip of gattling if most of the shots land and just a tiny bit into the second clip if they don't. After that, 3 shots of light flak is all that is needed to hit, in a much longer rebuild window. I've never seen any of my gunners have problems taking down a Junker once it's hull drops the first time at close range and at most a Junker gets two hull drops at mid range.
--- End quote ---
The times even with the old multiplier against armor are still massively incorrect. The Junker still out tanks the Goldfish.
--- End quote ---
I think Arrow's measurements were correct and sort of showed the hidden tankiness of a goldfish. A goldfish's armor can always rebuild before a heavy Flak finishes reloading with one engineer working on it; a Junker's cannot. Arrow's numbers took into account that the Goldfish would get multiple rebuilds while the Junker would not be able to get it's armor up before the gun reloaded after the armor broke. This is why in practice the Goldfish is still one of the most difficult ships to kill in the game. It may have wimpy armor and is very susceptible to focused fire, however in practice it's speed and agility often can get it to dodge a few shots just long enough for the armor to come back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, regardless of the numbers (awkm is probably right about them since he made them all) the Junker doesn't feel like a tank. It just seems sort of slow and squishy. Obviously just an opinion, and more of a gut feeling based on far too many hours of game play.
Captain Smollett:
--- Quote from: Squash on March 15, 2013, 02:31:49 pm ---Hey Junker Captain, I've got a suggestion for you:
Get your crap off the freaking stairs, there aren't even handrails, you're a floating OSHA magnet.
--- End quote ---
Ok this is pretty great btw. Salute for this.
HamsterIV:
--- Quote from: awkm on March 15, 2013, 01:18:15 pm ---Don't forget that rebuilding is easily augmented by the # of people rebuilding the component. If two people with small wrench rebuild the armor, it'll be up in no time at all. These are intricacies in balance vs. strategy (player coordination/skill) that are implicitly built into the designs of ships. You know that the armor will take longer to rebuild... so what are you going to do about it?
--- End quote ---
Most of us just don't field the junker or take her out as a bit of a joke. The Galleon is better at tanking and broad side fighting. The Pyramidion is better at three weapon focus at close range. The rest of the ships have completely different rolls to play. The only place the junker shines in my eyes is dealing with a squid who is very good at taking advantage of blind spots. Even then, the huge balloon is a liability.
I like the fact that the junker is sort of a pariah of the fleet. It makes any victory scored with her that much sweeter.
Mr Arrow Captl Fello:
Eric,
I feel like I need to defend my position here…I do have fairly extensive spreadsheets where I have utilized the numbers you have given us (for damage) and taken actual stop watch measurements of hull rebuild times, and gun load / unload times, Amongst a ridiculous array of “flight tests”
Unfortunately, I also feel if I share those here with you, we may see additional hidden tweaks to the game…not to mention that my latest spreadsheets prove that some of the published damage values are incorrect
And yes, even the ones I shared with you go second by second looking at ideal repair (no missed mallet/spanner blows) vs ideal firing (no missed shots)
if you would like we can take this offline (via PM's)
-Mr Arrow
First mate to Captain Smollett
and indeed a Capital Fellow
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