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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE

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NoWuffo:

--- Quote from: Garou on October 29, 2013, 04:55:21 am ---
--- Quote from: NoWuffo on October 29, 2013, 04:22:06 am ---This patch, they ignored the pyra, yay.

--- End quote ---
Not entirely. They made the guns on the pyra bigger, easier to hit targets.

--- End quote ---

True, however I will admit this was well needed. I'm a pyra pilot myself (well... I was), and I even know the hit boxes were kinda messed up.

Serenum:
I still haven't tested this new patch as much as others, but I think that a gat-mortar nerf was in order.
They might have overdone it though. The ideal result to me would have been no more one-clip kills, requiring metamydions and similar builds to have at least the time and skill to empty two magazines on the target before getting a kill. The range nerf wasn't really needed.

I don't like the idea of a sniper buff, mostly because sniper ships are awfully boring to pilot and totally dependent on their gunner's skill to defend and attack. We'll see how the meta developes.

Special thanks to Muse for nerfing the mortar right when I have to grind 2 achivements for it, that was nice.  :'(

-Mad Maverick-:

--- Quote from: Serenum on October 29, 2013, 06:12:35 am --- The ideal result to me would have been no more one-clip kills, requiring metamydions and similar builds to have at least the time and skill to empty two magazines on the target before getting a kill. The range nerf wasn't really needed.

--- End quote ---

why is that the ideal? why is it that after crossing an entire map taking fire the entire way in(from MULTIPLE clips i would bet) giving ample opportunity to my opponent to kill me WAY before i even get in range in order to return fire, i then have to make sure my boat is at the perfect angle because my pyra is not only has the fewest amount of guns on a single arc but it is also one of the least maneuverable ships, but dont worry i can offset that by damaging my engines and inhibiting my hull repairs, which is no problem because i have less HP than the ship i am charging, to keep anything in arc, giving my opponent another opportunity to buy time by using vertical or horizontal movement in order to unload yet another clip into me, and you think after ALL that the "IDEAL" is that with your engi doing absolutely nothing i should have to wait through an entire clip and a reload to bring down your ARMOR? and that is to say nothing about your perma hull that i now have less shots to take down than before, do you see how ridiculous that is? the balance already existed, long range has LONG RANGE and brawlers have to traverse that range, and mines, and WHEN WE FINALLY GET THERE YOU HAVE A SET OF BRAWLER GUNS ALSO!!!

i have never played a game where the tankiest character is also the DPS the disabler AND the range. i mean you want 2 of the 4 that's fine but ALL 4? cmon galleon.  i have also never played a game where a character that has the second best HP in the game can out DPS someone BOTH at range and melee, AND is also one of the most agile.  you ever heard of that? junker... oh and our melee/barbarian/rogue friend will not only have some of the worst HP but will also have the least amount of DPS suck it up squid/pyra

Garou:

--- Quote from: Serenum on October 29, 2013, 06:12:35 am ---I still haven't tested this new patch as much as others, but I think that a gat-mortar nerf was in order.
They might have overdone it though. The ideal result to me would have been no more one-clip kills, requiring metamydions and similar builds to have at least the time and skill to empty two magazines on the target before getting a kill. The range nerf wasn't really needed.

--- End quote ---
One-clip kills on the 'metamydion' (a phrase I personally loathe...) required skill. It took coordination between gunners, knowing your arcs and angles, and knowing how much clip to save for those kill shots. Gats required skill to land the shots needed for the strip and morters required patients, reflexes, and keen timing to be effective, especially at the competition level. Additionally, they require you to get up close and stay there. Charging in is difficult even for seasoned pilots, and on top of that it takes a rock solid engineer to keep the ship in one piece until you get there.

For everyone bemoaning how 'easy' gat/morter was and how 'OP' it was, I submit one simple, yet valid, question: Why are they so rare in upper tier competition teams? Let's ignore pubs for a moment and speak strictly of competitions and well organized clans, because pubs are a wildcard. You get players of varying skill and ability, and even when you get a ship of skilled players together there's no guarantee they're going to be on the same page.

Morter/gat pyras were never invincible. Granted, the ram kills needed to be toned back, but the gat/morter was neither as easy or as fool-proof as many have made them out to be, and for those who preferred alternatives there were equally effective options. There were also plenty of counters to them. Artemis, hwacha, lumberjack/heavy flak, or a skilled merc or mine gunner were all quite capable of dismantling a pyra, even pre-nerf. I speak from experience. We in Wolfpack are pretty well known for our 'metamydions', and I've been on the losing side a few times against very skilled teams. They could always be beaten if one was willing to design a ship to do just that.

I've said it for a long time, the crew makes the ship, not vice-versa. We've all seen both good and bad pyras, and everyone posting in this thread now has beaten at -least- one gat/morter pyra. They weren't nearly as imbalanced as they were made out to be, they just frustrated people because the tactic is basic: rush in and try for the quick kill. Because it's basic, everyone assumes that equates to not needing skill. However we've all seen what a bad gat/morter pyra looks like, and again I'll poise a question: If it requires no skill to use, and it's as OP as everyone says, why doesn't everyone who uses one win every time?

Serenum:
@ Mad Maverik
The opponent had "ample opportunity" to kill you only if it had a longer range loadout, which it's not always the case. Before this patch gat-mortar was medium range after all.
The rest of your post is incoherent rambling so if you don't mind I'll just skip it.

@ Garou
No, it never required skill, you are deluding yourself if you think that's the case. It just required crew coordination, minimal crew coordination I might add.
Charging in is difficult? Seriously? Going in a straight line towards an enemy ship is difficult? Exactly HOW desperate are you guys to keep the meta inside your comfort zone?

Again in your argument both of you are assuming an opponent on a sniper ship that is aware of your position all the time. This is a pretty big fallacy and shows how limited you are in your thinking. Let's not even adress the strawman argument like "pyramidions were never invicible" (who even said that?) and just move on.
If your posts accomplished anything is convincing me that this nerf was in fact exactly what this game needed.

Still not convinced about the sniper buff, but I bet you can manage that in a couple of posts.

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