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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
Echoez:
--- Quote from: -Mad Maverick- on October 30, 2013, 04:46:11 am ---the clear truth is this: if you started playing this game as a long range player this game has always been kind to you. new guns have been added to your arsenal (see LJ) and you have seen your ships buffed like crazy (see junker). you have been given new boats (see spire and mob).
as a close combat player we have seen our boats nerfed (see goldie squid and pyra) our guns over hauled (see heavy flak, light flak, flamer), our guns nerfed (see gat, caro, even from beta!) and have not been given any new toys since what? month 3 of beta?
the only new thing the close combat players get to do is find the next set up that works (be called a noob meta exploiter),have it get nerfed into oblivion(see heavy flak, gat/flak, flamer) and then try again.
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Pfft man please, get out of my head! This is so true I almost shed a manly tear. (agreed with everything bar the Mercury, which was hit hard, but rightfully so)
Okay, overdramatization is off now, but still, pretty much what he said. It's why I've also been complaining there aren't many new guns, because quite honestly I much preferred the close range scenarios and only used guns that amplified that strategy, all I've seen is nerfs to everything I love because someone else felt like they couldn't handle it, some call it Gat/Flak, I call it Blenderfish, someone else prolly has something else in mind? I don't know. Some people might even think it's still fine to use them, I simply disagree.
Okay so, after having played more matches in this patch I think I pretty much have a general grasp of how things are going on. Pretty much I personally feel like this patch forces me to be prepared for AT LEAST 2 different ranges. (long-mid, short-mid, short-long) or I will be at a severe disadvantage. The damage nerf of the Gatling was increasingly evident as I played with my Junker (gave up on the Goldfish completely, may you rest in peace my dear Riven, I will forever remember you.), the enemy had a Gat/Mortar Pyramidion, so at first I was wary of my armor.. the outcome was hilarious, my engineers didn't even have to leave their posts to go repair the hull because the Gatling is so low damage and inaccurate (still!) from point blank. The Junker is fairly impervious to Gatling fire now unless you have 2 of them hitting you accurately.
One good thing about this though, I have to admit, is that I finally felt comfortable of bringing a gunner on a Junker, his ammo diversity allowed both my close and mid-long sides to work at max efficiency (aka Lesmok-Greased for the Hades and Heavy-Greased for the Light Carronade). Though I wouldn't realy call it my short range side, mostly my 'let's finish them now' side after the hell of my 2Arty/Hades has inflicted upon them while approaching (oh yes you can get a long range trifecta with these guns, it's beautiful)
Some final thoughs on the subject.. the nerfs on this patch pretty much feel like a "Please use something else" plee from Muse to us rather than actuall balancing, that's the vibe I get from it and which is why as I said, I don't like the feel of it. (That was not meant as a personal thing against you Zill even in my previous posts, just to clear that up, I meant no ill will)
Kitty.Hawk:
Just reporting in from my play over the last two days. Gat seems incredibly underwhelming now. My difecta carronade junker is in range by the time they are starting to make a dent in my armor. And I typically win the armor stripping race after that point.
My 2 cents would be this. Gat vs disables. Can it do significant damage before it will be disabled by disablers (Most of which work equally well if not better at close range)? My answer would be no. An Artemis will disabled it before it can get armor down, as will hwatcha's or even well aimed carronades.
Can you disable their disabling guns first so your gat can take down the armor? Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on the gat to take well attended armor down before the disable weapon is back online and disabling you again.
Can you position yourself so that their disables can't get arc? Yes. But this is true of any close range weapon combo, what makes gat special in taking advantage of this?
What I am trying to point out is the same as many others, the damage needs to be there at those close ranges. Especially for a weapon whose primary purpose is to strip armor. I approve of the range nerf, but the damage needs to be put closer to the 1.3.2 number (But perhaps a tiny bit lower, like 9.)
NoWuffo:
--- Quote from: Thomas on October 30, 2013, 04:05:00 am ---I don't believe he mentioned anywhere that close combat was never intended. In fact by reducing the effective range on the guns, you have to be closer, encouraging close combat, instead of the mid to short range it was before.
From my understanding, Muse wants lots of viable options for players, not having them just resort to a single playstyle and loadout choice. Then you have to remember that just about all guns have been buffed and nerfed over time...
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No one is really arguing with the range reduction on the gat/mortar anymore really. The range reduction was ok, specialize it to a short range only weapon to give way for the Hades to be viable at mid-long range. Now true, it basically throws away the skill of some of the better gat gunners like Salous or Garou, some of the only gunners I've seen who could actually hit gat shots consistently at 700 m, but I'm not going to really complain about that too much because hey that's part of the game. What we're all calling fowl on is the dps reduction. It's crippled the close range kill combo, to the point where as many experienced pilots have already said, it's nothing to be feared anymore. Not feared = not viable, if you know you can easily counter it. The whole "buffed and nerfed over time deal that you speak of doesn't really apply to brawlers, especially not in the past few months. It's been a consistent nerf of all of the strengths of the punch-in-the-jaw builds. B'Elana's "Not this again!" sums up exactly how I feel about the pattern of bralwer-nerfing that's been happening time and time again.
I am willing to believe Muse isn't deliberately trying to take away the close range brawlers. However, in this last patch they've negated them to the point where no one will be using it. There is no considering the options in terms of bringing a gat/mortar combo, it's an instant "NO" from any pilot worth their salt. There are far better options now, and the gat/mortar pyra is so easily countered it's a joke. I'm really hoping the hotfix will dial back some of the nerf-attack that befell the gat and mortar, because right now they're pathetic and underpowered.
Subarco:
--- Quote from: Rutger Shaw on October 30, 2013, 02:02:05 am ---This right here is why I dislike strong based online games. the moment that something goes awry, the way the devs never wanted it to go... they change it on a whim. it isn't just this game. Games like Natural Selection 2, Hawken(granted it was just fully released, but will see this 'balance' bs happen still), Mechwarrior online, or ANY OTHER game where the dev's change things as they see fit. whats the point of releasing a game that isn't "balanced" to begin with? it's a joke. see, if you had released the game that WAS balanced, and completed you wouldn't have players complain each time you did this. on top of that it would also limit your player base to that of which you want.
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No competitive games released are ever going to be perfectly balanced from release or even afterwards. In fact, many good competitive games receive extensive balancing tweaks over time. That's how hard balancing is. There will always going to be complaints about it because you can't make everyone happy.
Sammy B. T.:
--- Quote from: NoWuffo on October 30, 2013, 09:32:58 am --- What we're all calling fowl on is the...
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Hey now!
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