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New Role: "Saboteur!!!"

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Cpt. Yami:
A nice idea, but I don't think its feasable with the current crew sizes. On any of the current ships you really need the crew to be active on your own ship. Right now there a 4-man crew limit. Someone has to fly the bloody thing, so basicly 3 people to keep your ship together and destroy others. Minus 1/2 gunner/s, because lets face it, they can't rebuild for poop. Were you to successfully board one of those ships with said crew composition as mentioned before, you can literally destroy ships by simply camping the engineer with the black jack, making him unable to rebuild when the need is dire. With the current build you proposed here would make it far to unbalanced for a game which focuses specifically on airship combat. A nice idea though, and perhaps can be implemented at a later stage once(or if) larger crews become available.

Skyler Ruin:

--- Quote from: Yami-Yagari on March 11, 2013, 12:57:06 pm ---A nice idea, but I don't think its feasable with the current crew sizes. On any of the current ships you really need the crew to be active on your own ship. Right now there a 4-man crew limit. Someone has to fly the bloody thing, so basicly 3 people to keep your ship together and destroy others. Minus 1/2 gunner/s, because lets face it, they can't rebuild for poop. Were you to successfully board one of those ships with said crew composition as mentioned before, you can literally destroy ships by simply camping the engineer with the black jack, making him unable to rebuild when the need is dire. With the current build you proposed here would make it far to unbalanced for a game which focuses specifically on airship combat. A nice idea though, and perhaps can be implemented at a later stage once(or if) larger crews become available.

--- End quote ---

To your point of camping the hull. If the enemy has a Saboteur he can blackjack you and you will be kicked from their ship back to your own. Also his crew would be "down a man". Risk verse reward. It's a real choice. Not a problem.

Shinkurex:
The problem with this role, is that it's boarding... It would be fun I'm sure, but it would break the current feel of the game, and go against everything that Muse has been going for with team play... Saboteur is essentially a solo strategy

Skyler Ruin:
 I'm sorry, Shinkurex, but I disagree. Being on the same ship does not make you a team. Team work does. How is it any different from a gunners "teamwork"? Consider what a gunner does. They mount a gun, choose an ammo and hopefully shoot at the same ship as the other gunner. They can also help repair if they are one of those good gunners that is aware of their surroundings. Which part of that is team work? If you can answer that then you will see how it can apply to the Saboteur as well. You can create ways for them to be team oriented. The design I thought up is based around team work. Any role can be played as a non team player. The fact that we choose to play as a team is what makes it a team. So it is really based upon your own perspective and what you feel team work is(or what you've been told it is).

 So far I've only seen one legit reason against my idea. That is that Muse deciding against boarding. They said it was considered a lot. That means it was a question at some point and the ideas for it haven't fit the feel of the  game. It's possible that an idea outside of Muse might change that. I understand that people like to shoot down other peoples imaginings, but instead of pointing out the holes in it maybe we could fill them with support from your own ideas. If the game in its current state is the original idea and that which Muse was going for then there is no need for suggestions from us players. They want to know what we want.

 Thanks again for your input and criticism.
  -Skyler Ruin

Veffidia:
I kind of see where both sides of the argument are coming from.....fighting breaking out on deck would severely detract from the actual ship combat, especially when people in online games seem to have a CoD mentality about everything.

That said, if it is already possible to jump on someone else's ship, I wouldn't mind there at least being some kind of recognition for doing it.

I've already seen that most ships tend to have 1 Pilot, 1 Gunner, and usually 2 Engineers, but there have been multiple occasions where all the Gunner is really doing is just standing on the same gun at the front & firing their better ammo - it's situational, but I could see how a third Engineer could replace a Gunner depending on what's happening & what ship you are piloting due to the game's current setup.

I don't think adding an extra crew slot/role to allow for specialised Saboteurs would help maintain game balance......though alternatively, giving the Gunner an extra tool he/she could opt to use that would let them tie a rope to one of their gun posts, jump to the nearby enemy ship, plant an explosive of some type on deck, and then finally yell out to be pulled in by his/her crew (crew still on the ship would simply tap the gun that the Gunner was tied to in order to reel them in) sounds as if it could potentially be worked in & still maintain game balance & teamwork.  The ship at risk from the explosive would simply need to spot the Gunner & their tether & whack it with a wrench or something to send the Gunner flying off the ship - an activity the entire crew can be responsible for, especially since combat is usually hectic enough that it may be harder to notice an enemy Gunner dropping out of the sky.

Obviously, using this maneuver would mean your ship is taking a risk to get close & use up a Gunner & ammo/item that you could have loaded into your guns - especially risky if the game is set so that the jumping Gunner would have a NASTY respawn timer to deal with if their safety tether is in any way cut before they return to their original ship.  Ultimately, if the Gunner were to successfully plant a bomb but have their rope yanked/cut to send them flying overboard, the Gunner's only option at that point is to wait out the respawn time.....if the bomb does enough damage to take out the enemy's hull, the ship blows up & resets, but the Gunner is still gone long enough to make it a penalty for failure.

Even if that wouldn't work well in Ship vs Ship combat, the idea could still stand for Adventure Mode if you're jumping onto another ship with the intent to steal item crates along trade routes - no hand to hand combat, but simply needing to look out for that rope to cut.

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