Author Topic: Please Make Gunners Useful  (Read 129052 times)

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2013, 03:15:40 am »
I request this thread be locked because it's not going anywhere the other thread hasn't been. We really don't need two of these.

Offline Piemanlives

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2013, 03:20:44 am »
Seconded unless someone else proves otherwise.

Offline Charon

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2013, 03:22:15 am »
No guys wait, I can explain

Offline Charon

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2013, 03:23:12 am »

Offline Piemanlives

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #79 on: October 11, 2013, 03:25:06 am »
Wow Charon, greatest explanation ever. :P

Offline Cid Ferringer

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2013, 04:27:00 am »
There's no harm in discussing this, you don't have to look at the thread if you're not interested and why are you so easily provoked?

Stop derailing the thread, we were just getting back on track on the previous page..
Maybe if someone were to give feedback on the ideas I posted instead of messing around..

Offline Wundsalz

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2013, 05:04:56 am »
One of the major reasons why gunineers are preferred over gunners in many cases is their ability to bring a buff hammer. For a wide variety of weapons there is no need for using different ammo types that outweights the damage bonus a buff hammer provides. Hence reducing the buff hammers effect on weapons might help to make gunners more attractive. Alternatively one could grant gunners 2 engie equipment slots rather than 1. This would allow them to bring wrench+buff or could alternatively grant them some more repair power. I think bringing 2 additional ammo types is a rather minor boost compared to bringing 2 additional engineer equipments anyway.

Offline Cid Ferringer

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2013, 05:11:47 am »
Yeah but then you're making them more engineer instead of focusing on the gunnery aspect..

Offline geggis

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2013, 07:01:52 am »
I still think the simplest change that makes sense, given that gunners are forced to bring wrench/mallet/spanner or risk being totally useless when anything breaks -- while engineers get an additional ammo choice (because they can gun under any circumstances) -- is to make standard/vanilla rounds an ammo type. This forces the engineer to tradeoff versatility for specialisation or vice versa (just like the gunner does with engineering tools) and makes the gunner's repertoire all the more valuable (like the engineer's). With regards to ammo preloading/abuse: introduce unattended ammo reloading (this is far more intuitive) and allow anyone to use whatever is preloaded (again, this is far more intuitive).

As it stands:

Gunner:
Repair/rebuild or buff or extinguish/spray. (And even choosing 'repair/rebuild' sacrifices one or the other, or both to some degree)
Standard ammo and 3x specialised ammo types.

Engineer:
Repair/rebuild and buff and extinguish/spray. (I know it's not quite this simple but you get the idea)
Standard ammo and 1x specialised ammo.

With the fix above it would be:

Gunner:
Repair/rebuild or buff or extinguish/spray.
Standard ammo and 3x specialised ammo types.

Engineer:
Repair/rebuild and buff and extinguish/spray.
Standard ammo or 1x specialised ammo.

And I think that would make a world of difference. This was originally suggested by Mr Mouse I believe.

Anyway, if Sunderland is right and Muse are working on a solution to all this then the above doesn't matter an awful lot until we know what they're doing, so I'll get me coat...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:07:19 am by geggis »

Offline Cid Ferringer

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2013, 07:21:55 am »
Yeah but adding an additional engineering slot is not really in "the spirit of the class"..
You're just making a Gungineer..

Although I like the idea of having to bring standard ammo. Thats a really good idea..
What if guns weren't loaded at all when you start the game. That makes ammunition so much more important, it also adds more awareness to what you load the guns with.

That way you could give the buff hammer to the gunner and that would force engineers to give up shooting all together to pick it.
Or you could give the gunner the chemspray, make it increase rate of fire and reduce the fire fighting effect. So the main purpose is to use it on guns.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:31:12 am by Cid Ferringer »

Offline geggis

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2013, 07:30:51 am »
Yeah but it's not in "the spirit of the class"..
You're just making a Gungineer..

Captains should take gunners for their gunnery.
Also, different types of ammo isn't terribly interesting...

I'm gonna quote what I wrote on the last page, because personally I feel that the gunner not only needs to be more viable but also more interesting.

What's not in the spirit of the class? And who's just making a gungineer? Not sure who you're talking to there!

Like the OP, I think engineering is as dull as dishwater compared to gunning so I get a bit ticked off having to go engineer 90% of the time. I'll do it, but it's nowhere near as fun as piloting or gunning for me hence why I do more piloting...

Edit: Yeah I thought it was a very elegant idea!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:36:35 am by geggis »

Offline Cid Ferringer

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2013, 07:32:53 am »
Wait, I thought you were talking about adding a 2nd engineer slot to the gunner.. My bad, I guess I confused it with the previous suggestion..
It's actually a fantastic idea, coupled with guns having 0 ammo loaded from the start.

I also edited my post quite a bit after I read that part..

-------

I also think it's hard to see what effect your ammo has.. While it's much more obvious what effect the engineer tools have.
Which in turn leads to a lot of people undervaluing and not understanding the worth of a gunner.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:38:44 am by Cid Ferringer »

Offline geggis

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2013, 07:37:11 am »
Yeah I just noticed and edited my post too :-S

Offline Letonator

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2013, 09:33:25 am »
Just had time to sit down and read through the posts from yesterday and this morning, and needless to say I'm blown away by the amount of clashing that's going on here. I won't bring up any new arguments but I will say that I'm not doing this out of selfishness, I'm trying to make the game enjoyable for myself (and I assume for others as well, hopefully). I'm not the only one that paid his cash to play this game, we all did, and it's important we make each class and player type viable and enjoyable.

That being said, I think it's clear those gunner changes coming need to be substantial, because as it is there's a lot of unhappiness and debate going on as evident by this thread. Some people are getting nasty about it, some are keeping it decent and civil. I would hope everyone can keep it friendly too because this is a game, we're all here to have fun, but this is also about some people who love the gunner class get harassed about it, and that removes the fun entirely.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread already too, fantastic ideas that really breach some of the boundaries currently set in front of the gunner class. I don't want it to turn into a game of give it more engineer slots, because that solves jack shit for me. I want to make shooting the ever living crap out of things more viable. Keep up the good, positive thinking on how that can be accomplished.

Oh, and for people just hoping on the thread to say "No, screw you, get in line and do whatever your captain says"; Please reconsider how you're treating others. We're generating positive, helpful ideas here, not trying to break people down.

Offline shadowsteel

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Re: Please Make Gunners Useful
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2013, 11:27:38 am »
- Flaregun
A pocket sized gun that fires flares, will keep ships nearby spotted automatically for X time.
Can cause fires, very long reload time.

Yes! Sunderland's Portable Flare Gun.