Carronades 1.3.2

[Captain Smollett]

I think it's fair to say there's a good bit of hyperbole going on about how good carronades are.

I don't think carronades are really op, they are however really easy, so for less skilled crews it can give an advantage.

[Serenum]

they are however really easy, so for less skilled crews it can give an advantage.

Again ignoring the fact that there is a difference between a weapon that relies on gunner skill and a weapon that relies on pilot skill.
Carronades are easy for gunners, harder for pilots. It balances out.

At this point I'll even throw in an exemple:
Let's say you are on a long range ship, like a galleon with lumberjack, flak and mercury. As a gunner, you have your work cut out for you, you need to make every single shot count and you have to hit the relevant components at long range. As a pilot you just need to be aware of your surroundings and position yourself accordingly. Once your gunners have a clear shot your only job is to avoid throwing off their aim, usually by parking somewhere and letting them kill stuff.

Now let's take the carronade. As a gunner, it's easy, very easy. You only need one kind of ammo basically and the balloon is often the largest target on an enemy ship, plus you are going to fire at short range. As a pilot you need to carefully plan your moves, ambush the enemy, rush in when they seem distracted and once you have their balloon popped you still need to manouver all the time to keep them in a good position to not only keep their balloon down but also dish out some damage with another weapon when their armor goes down either because of carronade shots or because of impact with terrain.

See what I mean? A gun can be easy for one class, harder for another.

[Captain Smollett]

As a person who has predominately flown throughout my tenure in goi, I would argue that blenderfish in particular, are not challenging to fly.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

The only area Carronades need a nerfing in is range. Seriously, why would you buff this? It was fine before. It forced carronade ships to close range and get in close for kills but increasing the range just gives them the opportunity to sit back and blend without taking much risk. There is not a lot of options to counter this. That is where the problem comes in. You can't evade, your balloon dies in one barrage over and over because the carronade is such a noob tube. Doesn't take any effort or skill to fire them and the disabling capability payout is huge.

Cut their range by about half of what it is, turn it back to being a CQC weapon and we're fine. Going to have a lot of boring matches coming up if it isn't changed.

[Serenum]

As a person who has predominately flown throughout my tenure in goi, I would argue that blenderfish in particular, are not challenging to fly.

That's because the goldfish is an easy ship, but still among its front weapon loadouts the carronade is the hardest for the pilot to use effectively.
And the goldfish isn't the only ship that can use a carronade you know. You can't balance a weapon around a single ship.
Otherwise I could just say "hey using the carronade is super hard on a Spire, you need to buff that weapon".

[Imagine]

As a person who has predominately flown throughout my tenure in goi, I would argue that blenderfish in particular, are not challenging to fly.

Challenging, I guess not amazingly so, no.

Overpowered? Also not the case.

[RearAdmiralZill]

As a person who has predominately flown throughout my tenure in goi, I would argue that blenderfish in particular, are not challenging to fly.

That's because the goldfish is an easy ship, but still among its front weapon loadouts the carronade is the hardest for the pilot to use effectively.
And the goldfish isn't the only ship that can use a carronade you know. You can't balance a weapon around a single ship.
Otherwise I could just say "hey using the carronade is super hard on a Spire, you need to buff that weapon".

Which is why you dont balance guns based on ships. We always talk perfect situations to eliminate the many variables that is GOIO. Taking a Spire with blender is like taking a flak fish. It requires a lot of effort to be rewarding, and usually doesnt give enough in return.

Regardless of any of that, I dont know what you're trying to say to argue carronades are perfectly balanced.

[Queso]

My pilot loadout always carries a drogue chute in case of carronades. The limited downward arc means they have to come within firing range of almost any high damage build. A drogue chute means they can't really guarantee moving you down very far. If you wanted to have an even harder counter to the blender, increasing the turn speed from what it is now on drogue chute would do a ton. However I think there is a larger perception issue with new players. It seems kind of odd that a pilot tool can be used to counter weapon choice, when most of the tools are simply slight temporary ship stat boosts. Overall I don't find it that harmful against me in normal play.

[Captain Smollett]

That's because the goldfish is an easy ship, but still among its front weapon loadouts the carronade is the hardest for the pilot to use effectively.

Ok, I'll stop derailing the thread after this, but I also disagree that the carronade is the hardest goldfish weapon to pilot and would argue the exact opposite since positioning and decision making are far more difficult and crucial with LJ and heavy Flak and stability of flight and timing maneuvers between volleys for Hwacha are all more difficult and experience dependent than piloting a ship within 500 meters of the enemy without dying.

In the highest level play using a blenderfish is a liability and in high level play it doesn't confer any major advantages.  However in lower level play, due to its ease of use, the blenderfish can make an average pilot and crew into rockstars.

[N-Sunderland]

This subject really links back to discussions that were had between kill builds and disable builds from about a month ago. As I pointed out back then, there's an inherent problem with balancing GoIO. If outright killers (piercing-explosive mainly) get too strong, everybody starts finding the game boring and wants disablers to be given a chance. As soon as disablers get buffed, however, it creates a huge problem (mostly for new players), as it's much harder to deal with a disable build than a kill build if you're unprepared, even if the former takes longer (though that just adds to the frustration). The only way to get out of this cycle is for the game to prepare the players for that kind of thing. Better, mandatory tutorials are desperately needed.

[HamsterIV]

I would like to see the carronades' power reduced at longer ranges. It fires a bunch of "pellet" scan lines. What if 100% of the Pellets made it 10 meters from the muzzle, 90% made it 20 meters from the muzzle, and so on until only 10% of the pellets hit at maximum range. It would make  escaping easier since a opening a little bit of distance will reduce the incoming damage. It would make using the weapon harder because the gunner would have to gauge when the enemy is close enough to get the most out of the weapon.

[Richard LeMoon]

Seeing lots of talk about being on the receiving end of this, or being the pilot and gunner. This illustrates part of the problem. I have been on blenderfish as an engineer. They are quite boring. Normally, I just stand around doing nothing as the gunner takes out balloons. I have taken to avoiding crewing them just for this reason. I would rather be on the losing side and have something to do, than be on a two-man ship.

I would remove heavy clip bonus for the gun at least.

[HamsterIV]

That might be what makes the Carronade OP. It can be run by two competent players or 1.5 since the gunner doesn't have to be that good. In public games the player quality varies greatly taking a blenderfish eliminates variables and gives the pilot a more consistent platform to train on. The result is middle tier players who are very good at flying Blenderfish's but haven't quite mastered crew management.

At least a Metamiddion teaches crew positions and flack timing.

[Sprayer]

When I'm captain on a blenderfish my engineers always got stuff to do since the engines take damage from phoenix claw, moonshine or tar whilst I also expect them to man the side guns when the enemy ship is sinking below carro arc. Having nothing to do on a blenderfish can have only two reasons, which both have nothing to do with the ship being a blenderfish:
1) Your captain is too lazy/afraid/inexperienced to use his tools and guns to their maximum potential
2) You are incapable of seeing what needs to be done


I don't think the Hellhound is overpowered at all. Keeping one enemy balloon locked takes the blenderfish out of the picture in public games, resulting in a 1v1 for the remaining ships. From here on the outcome of an engagement is entirely dependant on the other two ships.
With the right tools the locked ship can keep the blenderfish occupied for multiple minutes, failure to do so is no flaw of the locking gun.
With the right guns, those which have a high upwards arc (30° is often enough) they can even retaliate by taking out the blenders main gun.

The shatter damage increase might be a buff when taking out parts without heavy clip but each shot on parts is one shot missing on the balloon thus increasing the chance of loosing the lock. This especially becomes stressed when considering the increased reload time.
On that note: the time between two shots of the hellhound is neglible, so the time part in the dps calculation comes down to the reload time. An increase of 1,5s is ~40% increased reload time, resulting in a nerf to ~60% of its former dps. I saw that argument balloon locking results in long, dragged out fights which are really boring? How does not taking away the ability to lock down enemies but increasing the time it takes to finish them off with the Hellhound help on that?

[Richard LeMoon]

I think you missed the point, and perhaps the fact that you have to use the claw/moonshine/tar means you are not as able a pilot. If you don't have to use ship damaging tools, then why use them? That nullifies point 1. Point 2 is also pointless. Aside from keeping the front gun buffed, there was very little damage taken in many of the matches I was in. Generally, this happens in stacked matches.

So, don't make pointless judgements on others' observations.