Author Topic: Pyra being op?  (Read 134247 times)

Offline bullethose

  • Member
  • Salutes: 2
    • [TAW]
    • 4
    • View Profile
Pyra being op?
« on: August 13, 2013, 08:46:05 am »
All of its weaknesses can easily be fixed with the pilot tools and engie tools I guess, It has the most shielded balloon in the game and of course it strengths and the fact as I said before all of it's weaknesses can be fixed with the tools. If you won't agree one is op can you at least agree two are.

Offline Plasmarobo

  • Member
  • Salutes: 41
    • [MM]
    • 24
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 09:12:29 am »
The problem is the statement "weaknesses are fixed by pilot tools" goes for all of the ships.
Galleon turning slow? Pop claw, and get those guns on the enemy!

I suggest you try new strategies, like disabling weapons and engines. Also I've had luck going at the Pyra's balloon from the side.
Really though, if you don't let them point their front at you it's not difficult to do some real damage to them.
I will admit that with the recent patch Pyra's got a huge buff on their gun arcs. Nothing can be done about that, it fixes more issues than it creates.

If you want to argue that it's op you are going to need to give a bit more info! What tactics are you using? What guns are mounted on your ship and the Pyra? What maps are you playing on? Is you ally helping you, or just chillin'? Remember this is a team game of rather high complexity. You can't expect every weapon combination to be good against every ship all of the time. You need to adapt your play style to the ally and enemy (or you're gonna have a bad time).

If you want to discuss the tactics used with the Pyra, I'd give an account of how you are losing/winning with it now!

Offline Serenum

  • Member
  • Salutes: 12
    • [Cake]
    • 15 
    • 19
    • 28 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 09:18:26 am »
Yes, Pyramidion is OP.
But you're going to find out that this has been the case for so long that a lot of the meta for this game revolves around it.
Frankyl I just stopped caring. Most pilots that use a Pyramidon do so in a sucidal and idiotic fashon, so whatever, I guess. I'll still win most of the times.

Basically, don't count on it being fixed.

Offline bullethose

  • Member
  • Salutes: 2
    • [TAW]
    • 4
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 09:19:52 am »
the tactics I use are try and stay in their blindspot and destroy their balloon but It is extremely hard to get lucky in that regard or even get a decent gunner I use goldfish for the most part. The 2 pyra games I have experienced have been nothing short of dreadful even with a good crew as a captain. Using the lumber or the carronade and 2 flaks on my ship I find pyras damn annoying when every other ship has been a fair time.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 09:25:11 am by bullethose »

Offline Plasmarobo

  • Member
  • Salutes: 41
    • [MM]
    • 24
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 09:42:35 am »
Those are pretty good tactics, but they are hard to accomplish by yourself.
It the Pyra has a competent ally, you are going to be forced off the grounded Pyra before it dies, and probably killed because pinning requires very specific positioning that leaves you quite vulnerable on most maps.

Try using Lochnagar rounds to get the final kill shot on the Carronade. Remember the Carronade is also REALLY good at taking down armor too! So the balloon being armored is actually an awesome thing for the Hellhound: by the time they hit the ground, the armor is already gone. But really, you should be focusing with your ally. Make sure they know that you will be taking their armor or balloon down. Make the match a 2v1. The Pyra is not over powered, it simply has a role as a heavy hitter. It's reasonably easy to dodge, unless you let it sneak up on you. My advice for that is simply "don't".

As for the heavy flak... well, all I'm going to say is it needs a little love. The LJs are very powerful, but difficult to aim. Remember, just because you're long range doesn't mean positioning isn't the most important aspect of the match! Sitting gives your crew more stable shots, but leaves you a massive target for long range weapons. Moving ruins the arcs/shots of your gunners but might avoid some ordinance. It's a balancing act.

But you're going to find out that this has been the case for so long that a lot of the meta for this game revolves around it.

That's not really true anymore. Pyra's are one of the easier ships to use by design. They are also one of the higher skill ceiling ships, meaning you see them throughout the game. The meta did revolve around gat-flak pyra's at one point, but only because they had a lot of armor. If you take a look at the 'state of the meta' gat-mortar is more common now. Pyra's just happen to have two light gun emplacements forward. But honestly, a junker implements that meta just as well, if not better. Additionally junkers have high armor, unprecedented mobility, and the ability to get three guns on a single target with little effort. Harder to fly, but more rewarding.

My point here is that instead of complaining that something is OP because you are having a hard time with it, take a careful look at how you are playing and how your ally is playing. When do you die to the pyra? Is it when your ally is near by? Why was he able to get his guns on you? Did you over extend? I'm not saying it's your fault, there is a massive continuum of skill in this game and sometimes you just get bad luck. Really though, I experienced the problems you are having when I started out. My advice for that is to practice and above all try new things. Hold back, let your ally go in and try to disable his balloon after he commits to not shooting at you. Stuff like that.

Offline Serenum

  • Member
  • Salutes: 12
    • [Cake]
    • 15 
    • 19
    • 28 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 10:22:17 am »
Gat-mortar (or just more mortars).
That's the meta in public games. And it still works wonders for the Pyramidion.
But go ahead and ignore that.

By the way I'm not calling the Pyramidion OP because I have problems dealing with it (lol), but because it's my easymode ship. When I want to pubstomp I go pyramidion and win, even against high level coordinated crews. You call it skill ceiling I call it bs.
Whatever.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:29:55 am by Serenum »

Offline Plasmarobo

  • Member
  • Salutes: 41
    • [MM]
    • 24
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 10:50:42 am »
That's the meta in public games. And it still works wonders for the Pyramidion.
Ah. Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that there isn't a meta gun combo, or that metamidions are not a thing. Just that the meta-combos can be equally effective on other ships. But the meta does include the Pyra.

When I want to pubstomp I go pyramidion and win, even against high level coordinated crews. You call it skill ceiling I call it bs.
When I want to pubstomp I go flame Squid. If I'm playing against people of the same skill level, I generally go Junker. I'm just saying because something is good or easy to use doesn't automagically make it overpowered. I've killed plenty of Pyra's and been killed by plenty. I've seen nothing to suggest that they are overpowered when the skill levels of the teams align (which is really the only situation you can consider something overpowered, before that point someone is just taking advantage of an inexperienced team).

But you seem to be observing something different.
If you are finding that you beat everyone you go up against, by all means seek out better players or enter the competitive scene.

Offline Serenum

  • Member
  • Salutes: 12
    • [Cake]
    • 15 
    • 19
    • 28 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 10:57:38 am »
No the point is that everyone is underestimating what 2 foward pointing front guns can do on a tanky ship like the Pyra.
Its desing is way too optimized, if there was at least a very narrow sweet spot from where you can fire both weapons it would be vaguely more balanced.

And just because you can work around something it doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. It's like saying that irl a f****** tree fallen in the middle of a road isn't a problem and shouldn't be removed because you can just climb over it or offroad and drive around.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 11:00:32 am »
When I want to pubstomp I go pyramidion and win, even against high level coordinated crews. You call it skill ceiling I call it bs.
Whatever.
When I go pubstomp, it doesn't really matter what ship I'm using or what ship I'm facing (well... except maybe that one time with all mine mobulas), generally win either way.

Anyways, Pyras are quite good ships, yes, but by no means are the undefeatable or OP. If you know how to approach one, they go down like every other ship.

Offline Skandis

  • Member
  • Salutes: 0
    • 4
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 11:13:15 am »
I think the problem stems from that the pyramidion is notably average in every aspect (average hp, average size, average speed, average turn rate) yet performs so remarkably well.
In a game where you're essentially picking a pseudo class, it's quite a nail in the eye when jack-of-all-trades work so bloody good.

Offline HamsterIV

  • Member
  • Salutes: 328
    • 10 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Monkey Dev
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 11:26:59 am »
You forgot to list the short distance from bital repair point to gun, and how all the engines are close together. It makes the Pyra a very easy ship to crew on. Also the forward facing guns mean that the newbie gunners who don't know how to compensate for ship movement and turning can still hit with the Gat. There have been many times on my junker where a gunner has emptied his entire clip into empty air loosing us the dps war.

That said the Pyra has a large hull hit box and in a 1v1 sniper duel against a junker with average gunners on both sides; the junker is going to come out ahead simply because the pyra is going to miss more shots.

Offline Captain Smollett

  • Member
  • Salutes: 122
    • [Duck]
    • 11
    • 14 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 11:54:06 am »
Pyramidion is not op

Though the pyra excels at many things, what it's really good at is countering disabling builds since the ship itself can recover and repair extremely well through disabling and carries an armored balloon and protected front guns, this is likely why you're struggling when attacking it with a blenderfish.

The pyra though has a giant hull hit box and is not nearly as tanky as people assume.  The best way to kill a pyra is to actually just outright kill it.  Under focus fire they vaporize literally in seconds since even new gunners have no problem hitting a pyra's hull.  Furthermore a pyra is really easy to dodge.  This is the reason you see so many Junkers in higher level play since they are the ultimate anti pyra ship.

Junkers can out shoot, out repair and out fly pyramidions in a duel. 

TL/DR Don't 1v1 a good pyra pilot by trying to shoot out it's balloon, use the carronade directly on the armor while focusing it with your teammate.  Once their armor is down, that pyra won't be long for this world.

Offline Rainer Zu Fall

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 26
    • [Prof]
    • 27 
    • 40
    • 38 
    • View Profile
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 12:03:33 pm »
The pyramidion isn't overpowered at all. There are many counters: Use far range weapons, attack the pyra from behind, take a quicker ship and stay in their blind spot... Just to name some.

There are many people calling the pyramidion overpowered. However, it's because they probably don't think about the tactics: What guns are they op with? In what ways is it op? Where are it's weaknesses?
If you don't just blindly rage and worry about it but start thinking about a problem you encounter, you may be able to solve it. This goes for everything in this game as well as the real life.

Offline HamsterIV

  • Member
  • Salutes: 328
    • 10 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Monkey Dev
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 12:17:12 pm »
Junkers can out shoot, out repair and out fly pyramidions in a duel. 

I am with you on everything except the "out repair" part. The pyra is far easier to repair for than the junker. The junkers smaller hull means it will get hit less if you are facing less than excellent gunners but from a ship layout perspective the pyra is much easier to maintain. Also with forward facing guns and a hull relatively close to the helm the pilot can hop off and bring the hull armor up with the main engine.  Thus getting the benefits of 2 guns constantly shooting and 2 spanners on the hull. The forward facing guns help, because the pilot can put the ship on a backwards path to expand the front gun's fire cone and hopefully keep the enemy ship in arc while the pilot repairs.

Not saying the Pyra is OP, but it has many fine qualities the first poster has missed out on.

Offline Imagine

  • Member
  • Salutes: 59
    • [MM]
    • 19 
    • 33
    • 22 
    • View Profile
    • Twitch Stream
Re: Pyra being op?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:34 pm »
Incorrect ways to engage a Pyra:

|yourship>      <enemypyra|



Correct way to engage a pyra:

                       <yourship|

<enemypyra|


Problem solved!