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GUNS & GUNNER SKILLS Balance Discussion v1.3.1
awkm:
Max distance on Gatling is 700m, but with its amount of jitter it'll take a few clips to kill Galleon armor. Heavy Clip will help, but with the -25% clip size the Gatling still needs one more reload to finish Galleon armor off. Of course, you'd have multiple ships attacking the target Galleon and then it's a piece of cake. However, you'd also have a friendly ship flanking your Galleon and distracting anyone focus firing the Galleon...
Just sayin'
1v1 is hugely imbalanced. This is where your 2nd ship comes into play. We didn't design the game for 1v1. Make sure you're talking to your friendlies.
Gambrill:
--- Quote from: QKO on August 20, 2013, 11:53:03 am ---Have you ever seriously attempted to fly a Galleon? You seem to have no notion of what Galleon crews are going through. When a pyramidion/goldfish/junker/squid/spire/etc decides to attack a Galleon, they first of all rarely charge from the Galleon's broadsides. That means that the Galleon has to turn. For the Hwacha to work, the Pyramidion needs to be in 750 meters. The Pyramidion's chaingun has a range of 750m and starts firing usually while that Galleon is turning. Now, why wouldn't a Pyramidion chaingunner not target the Hwacha's that are turning towards him?
In short, those hwacha's are more often gone than not before the Galleon has turned to fire. It gets worse from here, because the heavy guns die so easily, you need an engineer below deck to repair them and that means the hull is being sacrificed. Now you got an engineer downstairs, your hull is down and the Pyramidion starts to fire its mortar. Do you still think it's fair for a Galleon to die without firing a shot?
Don't forget that you silently agreed that the Galleon cannot outrun its pursuers. The Galleon's guns also go down to easily for the ship to make a proper stand and the only thing in between instant death right now is the hull armor that it provides. That hull armor takes very long to repair and ships that are trying to kill a Galleon will have done so before anyone on that ship has had the time to respond in the first place.
I will reiterate once more that I don't think it's fair for a ship classified as tank, where the crew is working their hardest to keep the vessel alive, to have their ship evaporate at a moment's notice. And it's only the mortar that is this bad. Flak cannon, rocket carousel, artemis and any other sources of explosive damage are much more moderate.
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I actually came from a locked thread where you were whining about a different thing vs. Galleons and just HAD to see what else you would put.
You argue and assume the people talking have no idea about this game. Well done you fly a galleon. Yet you complain about a chain gun taking out your manticores? A galleon is meant to be at the fight before it happens. You can't just fly into a battle half done.
the fact that you are being ambushed and having your manticores taken out before even a rocket fires. Shows you are not using the galleon to its full potential.
Gambrill:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,1813.15/topicseen.html
Read this thread,a fellow on there will give you a great tip for galleons.
QKO:
--- Quote from: Surette on August 20, 2013, 12:06:23 pm ---Yes, I have flown a galleon countless times. I'd also like to point out that I engineer on Zill's galleon in competitive play, so I'm likely more aware than the average player of what galleon crews go through. Now, yes, the galleon has to turn. Phoenix claw on a galleon (or most ships really) is a 100% necessity. Whoever told you that you need to be within 750 meters to use the hwacha was sorely mistaken, I'm afraid. It fires up to 1.2k, and as long as you have heavy ammo loaded in, you can hit at that range with a bit of practice. A gatling gunner may target your hwacha, but it's fairly difficult to consistently hit a heavy gun with a gatling gun, especially while both ships are moving. Not to mention the galleon crew should be focused on not letting their guns get destroyed, so they'll be repairing them while this is happening.
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Yes, but I recall that even with heavy clip, almost no rocket will hit their target at such ranges. Either that or the gunners I've been up against are terrible shots. Quite frankly, I have a history in FPS and I have had to aim in situations much more intense than that this game has to offer, and beyond 700 meters is a range I simply won't go for because most of my rockets would miss anyway.
--- Quote ---If your hwacha is gone before the galleon has even turned to fire, something is going seriously wrong. Having an engineer downstairs absolutely does not mean the hull is being sacrificed. You should have two engineers; one upstairs on the hull and balloon, and one downstairs on the guns and engines. Again, if your galleon is dying before even firing a shot, something is going seriously wrong.
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Yes, they came at you faster than you wanted. Of course I do my best to avoid the really bad situations myself. But having been on the other side of things, it's simply impossible not to notice how easy things are, especially with a greased round mortar.
--- Quote ---I didn't "silently agree" that the galleon cannot outrun its pursuers, I simply said that it doesn't need to. If you'd like to try outrunning your pursuers, the galleon certainly can. It has poor acceleration, but a fairly high top speed. The only reason it's generally a bad idea is because then your broadsides are no longer facing the enemy. Of course you have things like tar barrel to help mitigate this.
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So you're saying that the Galleon can clear any pursuer, most notably the Pyramidion carrying the front side guns, before your engines are down or before they destroy your ship? I would really really really like to see that.
--- Quote ---You keep coming back to your point of "have their ship evaporate at a moment's notice" ... I'm not sure what's happening in your galleon matches, but the galleon should never be evaporating at moment's notice, and that's almost never my experience on a galleon.
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What is happening is this: Galleon hull armor goes down, I pump out mortar shots, Galleon dies at shot number 13. No armor repair made. Does this game have any recording tools? I'm sure I can show you. Or you could add me as friend and we'll do a dummy 1v1 for the sake of argument. Once hull armor is down, that Galleon goes down to a single ship with the double barreled mortar onboard, if there were any helpers, they might as well turn away to kill another ship.
--- Quote from: awkm on August 20, 2013, 12:12:45 pm ---Max distance on Gatling is 700m, but with its amount of jitter it'll take a few clips to kill Galleon armor. Heavy Clip will help, but with the -25% clip size the Gatling still needs one more reload to finish Galleon armor off. Of course, you'd have multiple ships attacking the target Galleon and then it's a piece of cake. However, you'd also have a friendly ship flanking your Galleon and distracting anyone focus firing the Galleon...
Just sayin'
1v1 is hugely imbalanced. This is where your 2nd ship comes into play. We didn't design the game for 1v1. Make sure you're talking to your friendlies.
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You need 4 clips of heavy clip chaingun before Galleon hull armor is down, after that, less than 1 full clip of greased rounds mortar. With other types of Mortar I reckon they can get their ship repaired before they receive the killing blow and thus mitigate a lot of explosive damage. And I picked the Galleon for this discussion because it is specified to be a tank; we're completely ignoring what it does to other ships and with what ease it is doing it. And I still stand by my point that killing the strongest ship with one burst is just not fair.
--- Quote from: Gambrill on August 20, 2013, 01:16:01 pm ---[I actually came from a locked thread where you were whining about a different thing vs. Galleons and just HAD to see what else you would put.
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Oh! A follower! How nice!
--- Quote ---You argue and assume the people talking have no idea about this game.
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No, I questioned him on what he seemed incredibly casual about. It turns out that he has every right to be to some degree, but on the other hand... he's no world champion either(I think).
--- Quote ---Well done you fly a galleon. Yet you complain about a chain gun taking out your manticores? A galleon is meant to be at the fight before it happens. You can't just fly into a battle half done.
--- End quote ---
Ah, an argument neatly scoped to your own perspective. Did you know that it is perfectly possible for a Pyramidion to rush the long range side of a Galleon without sustaining any permanent damage? I'm talking about opponents hitting every mortar shot on our vessel and still not dropping us out of the air or destroying our hull. And when the Pyramidion gets within armtime range, the only gun that could potentially still hurt it is a fieldgun(unless proper self defense equipment has been put in place). So when a pyramidion is charging your sniping side and is not dropped, you have to make the choice on whether to turn or not. And even if you do, that Pyramidion still has the first shot on your brawling side. That is how you can lose your manticore and your carronades.
--- Quote ---the fact that you are being ambushed and having your manticores taken out before even a rocket fires. Shows you are not using the galleon to its full potential.
--- End quote ---
I'm not ambushed, I only get bumrushed. Furthermore, saying you never go down without dishing out a rocket barrage is plain delusional, even for the best of the best.
N-Sunderland:
Ok, what build do you take on the left side of your Galleon, and what ammo types do your crew members take? I'm sensing that that's the source of your problems, rather than the light mortar.
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