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"Artemis - Mercury" Role swap.
RearAdmiralZill:
I don't see this changing much besides it making an artemis required to do a merc's job, while making the merc a further bane by disabling everything in one shot. Good gunners will only need 1 shot to annoyingly disable rows of components.
Sure, art is harder to shoot, but toss lesmok in there for the faster missle, you get 3 rounds instead of 2 from merc, and net more damage than a merc with 3 hits. Then toss in burst at short range and yea, no. That's a terrible thought. You would have to nerf it's turning arc to that of a merc to balance it out.
The only time I liked penetration was when awkm made it so "heavy" components took 2 shots. Otherwise, you just get a dedicated boat disabling everything on anything that doesn't also have the same loadout, and a kill boat, which here would just be 2 or more artemis'.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on July 15, 2013, 10:46:30 am ---I don't see this changing much besides it making an artemis required to do a merc's job, while making the merc a further bane by disabling everything in one shot. Good gunners will only need 1 shot to annoyingly disable rows of components.
--- End quote ---
Broadsides are easily disabled now that it has two shots, a good gunner can disable a whole broadside in one go if he is good, with the penetration you might do damage somewhere else, but you won't be getting a broadside if you are charging them, if the enemy let you get a good shot on them from any other angle, their fault and should be punished. Dedicating a ship to doing just that will be a massive hit to your DPS. Also the Mercury is already being used as an approaching weapon.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on July 15, 2013, 10:46:30 am ---Sure, art is harder to shoot, but toss lesmok in there for the faster missle, you get 3 rounds instead of 2 from merc, and net more damage than a merc with 3 hits. Then toss in burst at short range and yea, no. That's a terrible thought. You would have to nerf it's turning arc to that of a merc to balance it out.
--- End quote ---
You either didn't read the change log, in which case I'm realy mad at you, or I don't even know..
So, the equation for the total damage the Mercury does on armor with Charged rounds, which is what most people use when armor breaking with it: (75*1.5+300*0.2)*1.3 = 224.25 * 2 = 448.5 total damage with its 2 rounds.
And that is with a range of 3000 meters and an easy to shoot gun.
Now the changed Artemis on Lesmok as you said: (35*1.5+85*0.2) = 69.5 * 3 = 208.5
With Burst rounds: 347.5
(Do keep in mind that the current Mercury with normal ammo deals 345 damage to armor with its 2 rounds)
At 1500 meters with a harder weapon to shoot and need to make more shots count.
So you were saying something? I think this is a pretty fine number for something that fires at these long ranges, despite the arc and it retains a lil' bit disabling power.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on July 15, 2013, 10:46:30 am ---The only time I liked penetration was when awkm made it so "heavy" components took 2 shots. Otherwise, you just get a dedicated boat disabling everything on anything that doesn't also have the same loadout, and a kill boat, which here would just be 2 or more artemis'.
--- End quote ---
Except a single shot Mercury with penetration and no armor piercing is useless against any boat without Heavy guns, and ships with heavy guns are now punished less cause it only has one shot that needs to be landed else you need to wait for a reload, the penetration is there to make up for that a bit. It no longer destroys both armor and components, you can not fully disable a Galleon's broadside in one magazine but you still have a weapon that has a massive role in approaching ships with heavy guns, can potentialy take out multiple engines and is still good at fending off enemy ships with heavy guns.
The only other change I could think of that didn't include penetration is lowering the Piercing further down to 10, basically what a single gatling bullet would do, take out the penetration and leave the 2 shots instead of 1.
RearAdmiralZill:
--- Quote ---Broadsides are easily disabled now that it has two shots, a good gunner can disable a whole broadside in one go if he is good, with the penetration you might do damage somewhere else, but you won't be getting a broadside if you are charging them, if the enemy let you get a good shot on them from any other angle, their fault and should be punished. Dedicating a ship to doing just that will be a massive hit to your DPS. Also the Mercury is already being used as an approaching weapon.
--- End quote ---
True, and they don't penetrate to the other broadside, also disabling that one as well, with which your idea would accomplish on one shot. If I charged to get in closer, you could take out a full broadside, and potentially a turning engine with one shot. If you have two mercs, well then that's everything except main engine, hull and balloon. Sure, that's not doing much to my hull, but a ship with half hull armor and one gun to shoot is far more useful than one at full health, and no guns at all.
Im not going to bother quoting your math. You assume I prefer charged in my mercs, which I don't. Also, you aren't hitting much of anything (even less so accurately and consistently) with a merc at 3km out and charged rounds.
You also don't account for reload speed which adds more DoT to the artemis.
And even if the math still makes an artemis less effective than current mercs doing the same armor strip job, that isn't my point. You simply make mercs a highly accurate and long range hwacha, and make artemis the new long range armor stripper. I don't get the reasoning behind swapping the roles of two guns when you should just tweak the current guns.
Has the current merc wronged you in some way that facilitates the change? It isn't something that is unbeatable by any stretch.
Captain Smollett:
--- Quote from: Echoez on July 15, 2013, 11:42:27 am ---
So, the equation for the total damage the Mercury does on armor with Charged rounds, which is what most people use when armor breaking with it: (75*1.5+300*0.2)*1.3 = 224.25 * 2 = 448.5 total damage with its 2 rounds.
And that is with a range of 3000 meters and an easy to shoot gun.
Now the changed Artemis on Lesmok as you said: (35*1.5+85*0.2) = 69.5 * 3 = 208.5
With Burst rounds: 347.5
(Do keep in mind that the current Mercury with normal ammo deals 345 damage to armor with its 2 rounds)
At 1500 meters with a harder weapon to shoot and need to make more shots count.
So you were saying something? I think this is a pretty fine number for something that fires at these long ranges, despite the arc and it retains a lil' bit disabling power.
--- End quote ---
I see you have in fact done the math. Both of these guns would be incredibly weak. The Artemis would give you about half the dps of the mercury with almost no disable and the Mercury would be useless with only one shot and virtually no armor damage. I suppose people might still take a trifecta Artemis but your intentions are obviously to nerf the long game away.
If that's your intention wouldn't it just be easier to change merc range to 1000 M and call it a day.
Chrinus:
Sooo you're saying it's better to have a long range hwacha that also cripples your armor? I really fail to see the argument here besides exploiting a gun that's exceptional at two roles. I remain unconvinced that keeping a weapon that ruins armor AND components without any real skill required is not something that needs attention and change.
I'm pretty sure the numbers can be tweaked to rebalance the game and see no 'dps issue' considering this capability. Let us sit on the idea that numbers are malleable and the mechanics themselves are what's being discussed here.
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