Author Topic: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing  (Read 97152 times)

Offline Commodore Phoenix

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2013, 06:06:08 pm »
So by abstract concepts we talking about seeing another universe with infinite amount of crew or just thinking our crew capable of feats only capable in the matrix?

Offline Barujin

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2013, 06:15:00 pm »
There is some psychological research that shows humans can't focus on more than 3 at once. We can compartmentalize and abstract, so if we have 5 engineers we can compartmentalize the idea "engineering crew" instead of thinking about each engineer. That is why there are a lot of 4 player team games out there. Self + 3 other players is just enough for a player to keep track of before our brain starts having to abstract concepts.
Yeah, that sounds like a solid reason. In that case, they shouldn't make ships that seem to obviously be intended for crews larger than 4. *coughMOBULAcough*

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2013, 06:24:15 pm »
There is some psychological research that shows humans can't focus on more than 3 at once. We can compartmentalize and abstract, so if we have 5 engineers we can compartmentalize the idea "engineering crew" instead of thinking about each engineer. That is why there are a lot of 4 player team games out there. Self + 3 other players is just enough for a player to keep track of before our brain starts having to abstract concepts.
Yeah, that sounds like a solid reason. In that case, they shouldn't make ships that seem to obviously be intended for crews larger than 4. *coughMOBULAcough*

It's less of a question of it being intended for more than four people, but more a question of it being intended for a well-coordinated crew of four.

Offline Barujin

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2013, 06:29:29 pm »
There is some psychological research that shows humans can't focus on more than 3 at once. We can compartmentalize and abstract, so if we have 5 engineers we can compartmentalize the idea "engineering crew" instead of thinking about each engineer. That is why there are a lot of 4 player team games out there. Self + 3 other players is just enough for a player to keep track of before our brain starts having to abstract concepts.
Yeah, that sounds like a solid reason. In that case, they shouldn't make ships that seem to obviously be intended for crews larger than 4. *coughMOBULAcough*

It's less of a question of it being intended for more than four people, but more a question of it being intended for a well-coordinated crew of four.
Yeah, I just think that it's a silly ship. Trying to juggle those guns and repairs is a pain if the crew is expected to actually use all five at various times in the match.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2013, 06:38:01 pm »
It's less of a question of it being intended for more than four people, but more a question of it being intended for a well-coordinated crew of four.
The Mobula doesn't need a well coordinated crew of 4, it needs a hive mind linked crew of 4.

Offline Piemanlives

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2013, 10:34:43 pm »
It's less of a question of it being intended for more than four people, but more a question of it being intended for a well-coordinated crew of four.
The Mobula doesn't need a well coordinated crew of 4, it needs a hive mind linked crew of 4.
Sounds like a job for the Zerg, then again, there is always more then 4 Zerg. Personally however In a game I played on a Mobula, the crew was like, "Welp something just broke," and then someone is like "Welp I'll fix it." the entirety of the match.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 10:36:16 pm by Piemanlives »

Offline JaegerDelta

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2013, 03:03:19 am »
Bu....but.....the mobula is simple to crew........

just use zone coverage.  one engie in each hallway and the gunner up top.  far side guns are only for specialized opportunities and anyone can run over there and use them if you need it (just put mine launchers there for instant 10 mine field, or some close range gun your gunner can run over and use while you are turning.)

each engineer has 3 things to worry about. gunner has 2 (plus side guns on occasion).  thats not alot. its just new. people gotta get used to it.

Offline QKO

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2013, 04:56:18 am »
The mobula would be much easier to maintain if the balloon and hull were connected more directly. You now need two engineers below deck and one above deck for the main engine to keep the ship in shape. When the mobula is taking a beating it's just dying a slow and painful death as it is right now.

Offline QKO

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2013, 05:36:30 am »
Hi Adino,
Great feedback and suggestions.  Firstly let me address a few things.  One is that, as a whole, the game's population has been growing over time.  Compared to the high of TGS videos spike days, yeah sure, there is a decline, but that sorta to be expected.  With more improvements that we do, we'll hopefully do better and better at keeping players and getting more and more people to enjoy the game.   

Secondly, a Kick feature we are deciding not to offer at the moment.  We are thinking about moderated and custom matches, but for now, we are not implementing a kick system after careful consideration.  We want to do more to encourage teamwork, and over the last 2-3 months, we have added commendations, party, crew formation, beginner matches, scripted tutorials, citizenship achievements, etc. to facilitate team play.  In the coming updates, we'll be working on different ways to facilitate team play and communications in matches.  Kick, in my humble opinion, does not facilitate team play, and can more likely lead to more trolling and encouragement of negative behavior in game.  As a creator of a moderated match though, I do think that Kick is what makes more sense there, and for that we are designing and spec'ing. 

Lastly, this is our 7th month of release, and so far we have been improving every step of the way.  And we haven't died yet.  Hopefully we can keep it going. 

And please don't take my reply the wrong way.  I absolutely appreciate your support Adino.  It's an honor to have everyone playing the game.  And while we have a different notion about Kick and about how to encourage team play (we opt for a more approach of encouragement rather than a a punitive one), I do fundamentally agree with you.  Improving team play and new player experience is the most important thing for us.  And we will do more. 

Thanks a lot, Howard
Having experienced DotA2 and games where retardation is redefined on a daily basis, I'm telling you that kicking is aq MUST HAVE. Because without kicking, people, especially the captains, have no means of power over their team. And while admittedly, most crewmembers in GoIO have been great so far; there are also some kick or even ban-worthy occasions in my experience.

When the means of power are required, but not available, frustration kicks in. And it kicks in hard, it will not just be shouting and flaming, it will lead to some serious verbal violence that the DotA2 and HoN communities are well known for. And implementing a mute system will not only anger just about every player playing your game, it will not stop the frustration caused by dicks fucking the crew over.

Everyone knows that the flipside of kicking is that some will try to abuse it, but some games have already proven that this is a really minor issue. In Alliance of Variant Arms, people complained about being kicked almost every game they're in; their developers adjusted the kick system so people could call less kickvotes. Those same players still got kicked even though the callers were severely hampered in their abilities. Often there, kicking is a team effort where people will spend their calling abilities to help out those that don't. Not because the majority of AVA players are trolls, but because it's for the benefit of the team. The same applies to other FPSes like Call of Duty and Quake, it's the civilized and mature way of dealing with dicks.

Offline Barujin

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2013, 05:50:37 am »
You bring up a good point: How can kicking be abused if the whole group must vote on it first? If the pilot was the only one with the power, then it would surely be abused. If the whole team unanimously agrees that a certain player should go, then where is the harm?

Offline QKO

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2013, 05:53:15 am »
You bring up a good point: How can kicking be abused if the whole group must vote on it first? If the pilot was the only one with the power, then it would surely be abused. If the whole team unanimously agrees that a certain player should go, then where is the harm?
If the captain is abusing his kicking abilities, he wouldn't have a crew. Being a captain means you need to have a crew's support and if you're a complete dick as a captain and kicking people randomly, you'd end up without a crew and thus unable to play effectively. Only dumb people would shoot themselves in the foot like that.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2013, 12:50:03 pm »
Trolls aren't exactly known for their intelligence.

There once was a troll in my game speaking with an obviously fake Indian accent. He was picking the wrong classes and jumping around the lobby.

He ended up on my ship, much to my dismay.
Unable to kick him, I decided to deal with him.
I played along with his stupid joke ("So, what part of India are you from?"), and actually ended up having a good laugh or two.

He realized that he was also having a bit of fun, and returned the favor by being a good crewman.

We even ended up playing a few more games together.

TL;DR, kicking is the easy way out. Find a way to deal with trolls socially. That's what this game's all about.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2013, 12:59:54 pm »
TL;DR, kicking is the easy way out. Find a way to deal with trolls socially. That's what this game's all about.

Yes this. Plus it's not really trolls that I find people wanting to kick.  People want to kick "bad" players or get rid of people to make room for their friends. What you'll wind up getting is tons of people getting kicked and banned from lobbies without ever knowing why because most people are too lazy to try to talk to people or teach people to get better.

This game is about working with other people, and kicking them is really not in the spirit of this game.

Offline shadowsteel

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2013, 01:12:08 pm »
Which is why they implemented Party and Form Crew options.
To preempt getting bad players without anyone getting kicked.

Offline RomanKar

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Re: What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2013, 01:15:43 pm »
I think kicking is just the easy, lazy way out.  If someone takes my friend's spot, I ask them to please move.  Almost always, they move.  The difference between this game and almost any other, is that GOIO takes actual cooperation, not just teamwork, to be successful.  You have to actually be on speaking terms with people to have any real sort of success. 

Also, there is an option if you truly don't want to fly with someone on your ship:  Leave the match and find another.  I've used this as a last resort.  It's even easier now with the party system and whatnot. 

So, I guess every game really has a de facto kick feature: kick yourself.