Info > Feedback and Suggestions
What I Notice about GoIO and Why its Population has Been Decreasing
Captain Smollett:
Oh one more thing. Muse does take trolling seriously. Repeated offenders that get reported become quickly banned just in case anyone else is having issues with them.
Dev Bubbles:
Hi Abino,
Couple of things real quick, with party and crew, their use are in the game manual, and we are planning to add more tooltips to help better direct people on what to do with different systems in the game. If anything in the manual is not clear, please let me know!
With Kick, I'm not saying that we don't do anything or don't care about the issue of trolling. In fact, if you reread my comment, I did say that we are looking at kick for moderated matches. Currently, there are already admin kick and afk kick, so it's not as though this function doesn't exist in the game. However, as Smollett pointed out, it's hard to decipher trolls from new players or people who just happen to have a difference in opinion but are competent, etc. Whether a player should be "kicked" or not is highly subjective for anyone. And this can in turn leads to a lot of trolling. Also, for a player to be kicked, it doesn't offer a permanent solution to trolling at all. So while on the surface this sounds like an easy solution. It is in fact pretty complicated, with potential to lead to a lot of negativity. We are active in moderation. In fact, we look at all reports all the time. And we will continue to do so.
Whether people agree with it or not, we try to take a more balance approach, looking at both moderation and features that would improve and positively reinforce team play together. If we have a sword in this game, we want to wield it very very carefully. After all, you guys spend your hard earn money in this game, and we have to be careful about what we add to the game, and the risk of creating a negative experience. With Kick, I can see it leading to negative experiences for a lot of people in game.
I will of course respect your decision whether to play or not to play the game. I am honored either way. We'll keep doing more and more to improve communications and teamwork, and hope you'll find the experience in game better and better.
Thanks! Howard
Adino:
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on July 11, 2013, 09:05:12 pm ---Hi AbinoAdino,
Couple of things real quick, with party and crew, their use are in the game manual, and we are planning to add more tooltips to help better direct people on what to do with different systems in the game. If anything in the manual is not clear, please let me know!
With Kick, I'm not saying that we don't do anything or don't care about the issue of trolling. In fact, if you reread my comment, I did say that we are looking at kick for moderated matches. Currently, there are already admin kick and afk kick, so it's not as though this function doesn't exist in the game. However, as Smollett pointed out, it's hard to decipher trolls from new players or people who just happen to have a difference in opinion but are competent, etc. Whether a player should be "kicked" or not is highly subjective for anyone. And this can in turn leads to a lot of trolling. Also, for a player to be kicked, it doesn't offer a permanent solution to trolling at all. So while on the surface this sounds like an easy solution. It is in fact pretty complicated, with potential to lead to a lot of negativity. We are active in moderation. In fact, we look at all reports all the time. And we will continue to do so.
--- End quote ---
A permanent solution would be to add a simultaneous report mechanic to the kick function. An investigation into the activities of the recipient of the kick would be in order, and if found to be warrant of action, it could serve as a legitimate report against trolling. Other games have done similar things, and it's very effective. There's more players than moderators, after all.
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on July 11, 2013, 09:05:12 pm ---Whether people agree with it or not, we try to take a more balance approach, looking at both moderation and features that would improve and positively reinforce team play together. If we have a sword in this game, we want to wield it very very carefully. After all, you guys spend your hard earn money in this game, and we have to be careful about what we add to the game, and the risk of creating a negative experience. With Kick, I can see it leading to negative experiences for a lot of people in game.
--- End quote ---
That would be the purpose of kick. It leads to a negative experience that, hopefully, will not be repeated. There are many ways to approach someone who would abuse the Kick function. I would find less people abuse the kick function than troll, which, in turn, would make it easier and more effective to kick-report trolls and manually report kick abusers, given the off-balance number of each.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---Trolls are a problem in every game and when someone is dedicated to ruining everyone else's experience more than likely they will find a way to succeed whether there is a kick option or not.
--- End quote ---
Yes but the more they are denied the chance, the more they won't troll. Get kicked from enough games and you won't have anywhere else to go, especially if the kick has a minute ban to it or something.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---But I honestly have seen very little trolling in this game and with over 800 hours of time into it I feel like I can speak from a vantage point of experience.
It seems that your greatest frustration derives not from trolls but from the need to rely on teammates and those teammates sometimes being "incompetent". And therefore you'd like to kick said teammates so you can supplement them with ones that help you win.
This is the main reason we don't have a kick system
Because you can't get rid of bad players you're left with two options. Lose.... or teach. The current mechanics actually encourage players to teach and help each other and encourage players to get better. This fosters a fantastic community and enhances the team play element.
--- End quote ---
I've come across 8 types of players in my time in GoIO:
1. Experienced players
2. New players willing to learn but not communicate, and thus can't learn nor succeed
3. New players willing to learn and communicate
4. New players unwilling to learn but very willing to communicate (complain, rage, bicker, yack, etc.), and thus severely hurt the team and the game
5. New players that are completely unresponsive and unwilling to learn
6. Semi-experienced players that do whatever they want with complete disregard to their team and/or crew and their Captain's wishes, and throw insults and/or complaints whenever addressed, usually blaming their team's failure on everyone else when they're the ones not contributing
7. Total trolls that sit in guns without firing, hit the Captain with a wrench the whole round, start fights with crewmates, etc.
8. Absolute derps that join rounds as the wrong class and refuse to leave or help
Of all those types, #'s 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 should be kickable. Only #7 could undeniably fall under the troll category, and thus face repercussions via reports to customer service.
I have absolutely no problem with helping people, but I'll say that 70% of the noobs I come across are the #2, 4, 5, and 8 types.
--- Quote from: Dev Bubbles on July 11, 2013, 09:05:12 pm ---In regards to some of the other points you made I disagree that there isn't incentive to communication. The overarching goal of every match is to win and 9 out of 10 times the winning team had the best communication. This in and of itself encourages communication. I like many new players also thought that large ships were undermanned but more experience will show you that 4 people is more than enough for all the ships in the game and is essential for the game balance.
--- End quote ---
See, this is where Muse makes a fatal mistake. Assuming most (80% or more) new players actually pay attention to communication, success, team-play, or anything sophisticated, is detrimental to GoIO. For those players who don't know the game contains voice chat, or don't notice the chat window, or whatever keeps them from communicating, they need something that loudly says to them: "COMMUNICATION = SUCCESS".
I remember the tutorials being very under-developed. I see an opportunity to build a more complex tutorial and introduce new players to the fact that communication is vital in any team game.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---As for damage log, there is a constant damage feed on the top left of the screen as well as tons of visible indicators of ship damage. Furthermore lots of valuable weapon and ship data can be taken directly from the website http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/ http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/ships-3/ though admittedly it's a bit difficult to access.
--- End quote ---
To memory, I've never noticed that damage log on the top left, and I'm sure a large percentage of the playerbase hasn't, either. I'd like to hear more about these "tons of visible indicators". The valuable ship data on the website is, indeed, difficult to access.
I request a system that is right there, in-your-face, and easy to understand. For example, hovering over those damage bars in the weapon details could bring a popup over one's cursor that gives exact numbers and a description as to exactly how the weapon is supposed to be used and how it behaves under normal circumstances. Maybe even take it a step further and add some story text to it.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---You are like everyone entitled to your opinion and seeing as the CEO of Muse read this even before I did, it's great that you've shared it as it will only help make this game even better than it is.
--- End quote ---
That's my intention.
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---If you do give GOI another chance, I'd recommend you join one of the existing clans. Having a reliable group of people to play with will likely get rid of a lot of your main complaints with the game and give you a fresh perspective on the game in general.
--- End quote ---
Where could I find one?
RomanKar:
--- Quote --- In games where players are free to troll and the developers have said "we're not going to do anything about this because we want to encourage people to stop rather than punish them", the developers are in a very blamable position.
--- End quote ---
To back up the devs a bit here: I think they do a better job than any kick feature. On the very few occasions that I have reported players for offensive names and such, it has been handled in minutes. Trolls aren't handled this quickly, due to the more prolonged procedure and evidence needed to prove trolling, but they are still handled.
The devs are in the trenches with us in this game. I've rarely been on without someone from Muse at least passing through the lobby. They take all issues seriously and go out of their way to help the players.
This game has something a hell of a lot better than some old kick feature (which has eliminated trolls in every other game it is used, right?), and that is the actual concerned devs who seek to protect their game and the legit players playing it.
Furthermore, I have only been playing a couple months, but I have only come across trolls maybe 2 or 3 times. In fact, I had one kid who was kinda acting an ass on my ship, but as soon as I started to try and educate him, he became a pretty good gunner. This game has a pretty good learning curve. The only way to cure incompetence, is to teach them. If you aren't a patient and competent teacher, then I can completely understand the frustration.
In addition, anyone can feel free to friend me and join in my games anytime they would like. We usually wind up with some really good groups and have a lot of fun. Drop by sometime.
Imagine:
--- Quote from: Adino on July 12, 2013, 11:29:08 am ---
--- Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 11, 2013, 08:15:52 pm ---If you do give GOI another chance, I'd recommend you join one of the existing clans. Having a reliable group of people to play with will likely get rid of a lot of your main complaints with the game and give you a fresh perspective on the game in general.
--- End quote ---
Where could I find one?
--- End quote ---
Here you go: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,295.0.html
But you can also just continue to fly in goio for now, and if you're paired up with someone with a new clan tag you can also inquire about their group, that may be a better way to go about it :)
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