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orignal flamethrower
-Muse- Cullen:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 24, 2013, 10:22:39 am ---There is literally no situation where I would rather have a flamethrower over any other weapon when thinking a loadout for my ship.
--- End quote ---
Personal preference. On my squid, I swear by putting it in the front slot because it guarantees busy engineers. Once they're busy, you gotta give 'em hell with burst mortar rounds, or even gat.
Chrinus:
Following up on Cullen's post...
Incendiary Flamethrower
45% ignite chance
30% reduced fire rate.. 13*0.7=9.1 rounded 9/sec (According to the wiki, 800/min=13.3 rounded 13)
FireRate*Ignite=4.05 stacks/sec on average
-30% clip size.. 300*0.7=210
ClipSize/FireRate=23.3 rounded 23 seconds
23 seconds of fire @ 4.05 stacks per second gives you 93 stacks of fire on average per clip
Greased Flamethrower
20% ignite chance
60% increased fire rate.. 13*1.6=20.8 rounded 21/sec
FireRate*Ignite=4.2 stacks/sec on average
+20% Clip Size.. 300*1.2=360
ClipSize/FireRate=17.14 rounded 17 seconds
17 seconds of fire @ 4.2 stacks per second gives you 71 stacks of fire on average per clip
Conclusion: They're both very close. This battle really will come down to how long you can keep the gun on target where greased would start to creep up since it has that tiny 0.15/sec stack edge to overcome incendiary's stacks by a very short sum.
Serenum:
By this logic mallet and spanner are counters to flamers too...
Also, mallet doesn't make the component you hit impervious to damage for 15 seconds.
Anyway, of course it's personal preference, everyone is free to use wathever they want, even a ship loaded with nothing but harpoons and flares. But I do think that it's a fact that the flamer is underperforming.
Surette:
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on June 24, 2013, 08:14:39 am ---I would like to invite all of your to use incendiary on the flamethrower and watch the results. Even spectate with a buddy using it to see just how fast it'll put stacks on things.
40% combined ignite chance per particle. Yea.
--- End quote ---
Can confirm, Zill was spectating me flying my squid with a front flamethrower loaded with incendiary ammo. After every match, the enemy team was just like "Surette, I hate you." You'll make their engineers miserable with 20 stacks of fire on nearly every component. Sure it's not a gat/flak replacement for your pyramidion (though Sunderland might disagree after playing him with a double flame pyra :P), but on something like a squid where you're meant to be a harass/support ship anyway, it's pretty damn powerful.
Plasmarobo:
--- Quote from: Serenum on June 24, 2013, 10:35:04 am ---By this logic mallet and spanner are counters to flamers too...
Also, mallet doesn't make the component you hit impervious to damage for 15 seconds.
--- End quote ---
You misunderstand my argument. Allow me to elaborate!
I'm not talking about components that are destroyed. That is our ideal endpoint in this scenario. We want as many things broken as possible.
The mallet and spanner rebuild damage, so they counter standard damage. Insofar as the flamer does standard damage, yeah, it is a direct counter. However, they cause repair cool down and most importantly do not put out flames. Those flames will continue to damage your components. Until they break, or someone puts them out.
I would be very impressed if you could maintain a Chemspray on the hull, balloon, and important guns while repairing.
Anyone who is competent with flamethrower will see the blue sheen and target the non-impervious components. Yay massive fire stacks on everything!
You can imagine a Hullbuff as mitigating general damage, but fire does continual damage until dealt with.
I think you keep imagining the flamer as a DPS weapon. But I don't think it's supposed to be.
In my mind it's similar to a burst-rocket weapon, it breaks stuff. It's purpose is not to kill. So it shouldn't be taking down armor or components even. It should be either: pulling engineers away from their posts -or- breaking their toys.
Now, if you want to talk about flame stacks kicking gunners off their guns sooner... well, everyone seems to support that. So yeah, I suppose it is still under performing.
But flames + massive damage = unfair to engineers.
(I also think that you should not be able to extinguish while the hull is on cooldown, but I think that'd be a bit unfair too...)
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